Pianobook and decentsampler

@will-blake

Many folks in the Unify community are aware of Pianobook and Decent Sampler, but probably not all. Thank you for the links.

Have a look at this Youtube video from Dave Hilowitz.  

(654) How to get 103 sample libraries for FREE! [Pianobook / DecentSampler] - YouTube

If you'd like to see Decent Sampler bundled with Unify in future, please write to Dave Hilowitz and tell him. He might choose not to, but the more people who ask, the more likely he'll be to consider it.

Posted by: @will-blake

Am I telling people stuff they already know??, am I late to the party again??

Never hurts to post about knowledge you can share.  I have heard reference to this many times but, since I keep to a limited number of VSTs, I haven't really checked it out.  Until now.  Your post was the one that finally made me think of checking it out.  I have the tab open now and will look more into it later.  Thanks.

@ssquared Thanks for that and good idea about limited plugins.. no option dilemmas 😉👍🏻

has someone installed descent sampler today? I would like to know if it is easily usable in Unify, is it stable or should we wait a little longer? It would be very nice to have in Unify built-in VSTI

@dominique

Yes, it is very stable in Unify and has just been updated.  See my earlier post above to obtain some great libraries.

Thank you Patrick .

Finally I installed it without waiting with some libraries. it's really good and even more so with Unify. 

Decent sampler has been updated to version 1.2.3.

But since this update UNIFY crashes every time I change patches. it worked very well with v 1.00 .

In a simple reaper track without Unify it works perfectly but it is much less interesting to use.

Have you noticed this problem on your side?

I asked them if I could recover an older version. I'm waiting for an answer

Hi Dominique - I'll look into this - first I've heard so thank you for the heads up!

- JL

Hi dear John

for your information I did several tests with new decent sampler patches on UNIFY .

Posted by: @dominique

as soon as you create a decent sampler  patch with for example an additional auxiliary layer it crashes when you reload the patch.

 

I am unable to reproduce this. I'm testing on Windows 10, with Unify 1.6.2 (latest) and Decent Sampler VST v1.2.3 (latest).

I created a Unify patch with two Decent Sampler INST layers and one AUX layer using Dragonfly Hall. It reloads correctly every time.

Could you please post a Unify patch (.unify file; you will need to zip it before attaching to a forum post) that fails to reload for you? Please make it a very simple one, which does not rely on any sample-sets which are difficult to get.

UPDATE: I can reproduce the crash, but only if I first open a Decent Sampler instance manually first. Whatever the bug is, it seems to be in Decent Sampler itself, not Unify. I will pass this information on to David Hilowitz.

Hi Shane

Thank you for your answer

Here is 2 patches model that I created with 1 layer decent sampler +1 layer master and an auxiliary layer.

in fact Unify does not crash the first time, but when I change patches several times in succession 

@dominique

Thank you for the test patches and description. I have sent email to David Hilowitz, but not received a response yet.

I just tried the new version 1.2.7 but the problem remains unchanged.

They did not reply to my first message. I just reminded them.

it's a shame because decent sampler is unusable with Unify at the moment. or you should not change the patch but it has no interest

@dominique

I emailed David Hilowitz on September 28, 2021, but got no answer. I have just sent a follow-up email, passing on your report that the problem persists in Decent Sampler v1.2.7.

I would imagine that David receives floods of emails every day, very likely so many that he doesn't even have time to sift through them to identify the more serious ones. We can hope for a response, but it's not guaranteed.

I agree it's a shame, because Decent Sampler is a wonderful and valuable tool, and a nice complement to Guru Sampler in Unify.

I believe I have found a work-around for these Decent Sampler crashes. If you update Unify's plug-in reuse rules to allow Decent Sampler instances to be reused, the problem seems to go away.

See https://pluginguru.net/unify/manual/doku.php?id=layer-reuse for full details about the reuse rules, but the basic steps are:

1. Locate the file ReuseAcceptRules.xml. On Windows this lives in %appdata%\PlugInGuru\PluginRules-Unify.
2. Open the file in a proper plain-text editor (Windows Notepad will do, but do NOT use WordPad).
3. Add the line <PluginRule vendor="Decidedly" descName="DecentSampler"/> before the </PluginRules> line at the end.
4. Save the file and restart Unify.

I have attached a Zip archive containing the two XML files I use on my PC. If you're not sure about editing your XML files, just use these instead.

Please let me know if this ever fails.

I currently also have:

  <PluginRule vendor="Native Instruments%" name="Kontakt%"/>

Does that still make sense?

Thank you Shane

David also just told me to wait until Monday.

He thinks he has the solution.

I will keep you informed of his response before modifying the XML file

@nico

We found that removing the line for Kontakt worked better. It seems that Kontakt actually starts up slower when instances are re-used.

However, it's harmless to keep that line in ReuseAcceptRules.xml file.

Posted by: @getdunne

@nico

We found that removing the line for Kontakt worked better. It seems that Kontakt actually starts up slower when instances are re-used.

However, it's harmless to keep that line in ReuseAcceptRules.xml file.

oh - thanks, I had missed that!

dear Shane

here is the news for now

I tried the new version 1.3 of decent sampler as well as the modification of the ReuseAcceptRules.xml file.

Nothing has changed Unify crashes after changing patches a few times. 

It crashes much faster on multi-layer patches. On mono layer it is very irregular. it can crash after 2 or 3 times only but you can also go up to 20 times. A bit like LABS at one time.

I wrote to David yesterday again to let him know 

@getdunne while reading this thread it struck a chord with a recent problem I discovered after the upgrade to Omnisphere 2.8

@mrfuzztone

Thanks for reporting your results in detail.

It appears that users' experience varies quite a bit in this respect, and also that experience may change when a particular third-party plug-in is updated to a new version. This is frustrating for all concerned, because it seems it cannot be predicted.

I'll take up these issues with our contacts at Spectrasonics, Native Instruments and Decent Samples.

One last thing: I don't quite understand what you mean when you say

Now Omnisphere displays the correct preset names whereas before the change to that file, it would be stuck on the Omni preset name of the first viewed preset.

Can you explain in more detail?

@getdunne Taylor Harris of PluginGuru has the details.  I had used the Contact form and then we corresponded by email.

Steps for wrong preset name in Omnisphere 2.8. This does not happen with 2.7
Select a Unify preset using Omnisphere. Double click to see the Omnisphere UI. You will see the preset name in the Notes tab in the center.
Select a different Unify preset using Omnisphere. The Omnisphere UI Notes tab will still have the preset name from the first Unify preset. The Layers tab will have the correct values for the 2nd preset selected.

@mrfuzztone @getdunne

I can confirm this behavior in my system. Strangely, Omnisphere seems to play the choosen Unify patch but is displaying a different one. 

I also confirm the same .Thank you Mr fuzztone !

moreover, the first name indicated in Omnisphère remains definitely the same. even if you change Unify patches several times . 

Fortunately the sound changes well 😊 

I have just reported the Omnisphere issue (together with a few others) to my contact at Spectrasonics R&D. With luck this will be fixed in their next maintenance update.

Posted by: @getdunne

I have just reported the Omnisphere issue (together with a few others) to my contact at Spectrasonics R&D. With luck this will be fixed in their next maintenance update.

Somewhat related. Omnisphere has  Directory:  in the upper left of its main UI.
When you use Unify to switch to a preset in a third party Omnisphere library such as PluginGuru O2 ESC Tribute, you will see 
Directory: All Spectrasonics   instead of the 3rd party library name and you usually won't see the preset selected in the preset list on the left.
Do you think Omnisphere gets enough information from Unify to know how to show the correct library name? It does know how to get sounds from the correct 3rd party library so I would guess it knows which 3rd party library is active.

Posted by: @thsve

@mrfuzztone @getdunne

I can confirm this behavior in my system. Strangely, Omnisphere seems to play the choosen Unify patch but is displaying a different one. 

Omnisphere shows the wrong preset name and the Notes tab has the wrong values.
The Omni Layers tab does have the correct values. That correlates with it switching to the correct sounds for the Unify patch.

Remove the line with Spectrasonics from Unify config file  ReuseAcceptRules.xml 
The problem went away for me.
And Omnisphere loads faster for me after the first time. 2 wins
I also removed the Kontakt line and Kontakt loads faster. Go figure.

Back to the original thread topic, I did use Decent Sampler with Unify for a Pianobook sound library.

My recollection is that it was slightly difficult to set up. That could be improved. A good product should have good ease of initial use.
That reminds me of web sites that are easy to order sound libraries from with a single Paypal button click and maybe a couple fields to fill in.

Posted by: @mrfuzztone

Do you think Omnisphere gets enough information from Unify to know how to show the correct library name?

Host programs do not provide information to third-party plug-ins in the way you might think. What actually happens is that when a host (Unify, DAW, etc.) saves a patch/project, it requests each plug-in to provide its current "state". Each plug-in returns a "chunk" of binary data in a format chosen by the plug-in developer; the host knows nothing about what it contains. When the patch/project is re-opened, those chunks of binary state-data are stuffed into newly-created instances of each plug-in, with the general expectation that this should restore their state exactly as it had been. Whether the plug-in actually does this is up to the developer.

In this particular case, the question is whether or not the Spectrasonics programmers consider the currently-selected library name to be part of Omnisphere's "state" which must be restored. I'm not them, so I don't know.

Posted by: @mrfuzztone

Back to the original thread topic, I did use Decent Sampler with Unify for a Pianobook sound library.

My recollection is that it was slightly difficult to set up. That could be improved. A good product should have good ease of initial use.
That reminds me of web sites that are easy to order sound libraries from with a single Paypal button click and maybe a couple fields to fill in.

Was there something about Unify specifically that you found difficult?

In this case, I would think the issues are with Decent Sampler and the Pianobook sample library. These are beyond our control.

No Unify is not involved. With DS version 1.00 there was no problem. The troubles started with V 1.2

Posted by: @getdunne

Posted by: @mrfuzztone

Do you think Omnisphere gets enough information from Unify to know how to show the correct library name?

Host programs do not provide information to third-party plug-ins in the way you might think. What actually happens is that when a host (Unify, DAW, etc.) saves a patch/project, it requests each plug-in to provide its current "state". Each plug-in returns a "chunk" of binary data in a format chosen by the plug-in developer; the host knows nothing about what it contains. When the patch/project is re-opened, those chunks of binary state-data are stuffed into newly-created instances of each plug-in, with the general expectation that this should restore their state exactly as it had been. Whether the plug-in actually does this is up to the developer.

In this particular case, the question is whether or not the Spectrasonics programmers consider the currently-selected library name to be part of Omnisphere's "state" which must be restored. I'm not them, so I don't know.

Could you inform your contact at Spectrasonics about this to see if it is doable?
It would be nice if it worked. It would enhance the combination of Unify + Omnisphere

Shane: thanks for the replies. Unify is extremely useful.

Posted by: @mrfuzztone

Could you inform your contact at Spectrasonics about this to see if it is doable?
It would be nice if it worked. It would enhance the combination of Unify + Omnisphere

Spectrasonics just released four massive new add-on products and a major update to Omnisphere. Their developers will be absolutely slammed dealing with the fallout for some time. This is not a bug, so I doubt very much they will care, and I'm not going to confuse our on-going discussions about actual bugs by throwing this into the mix.

I suggest you contact Spectrasonics directly to report this issue. 

Posted by: @mrfuzztone

 

Remove the line with Spectrasonics from Unify config file  ReuseAcceptRules.xml 
The problem went away for me.
And Omnisphere loads faster for me after the first time. 2 wins
I also removed the Kontakt line and Kontakt loads faster. Go figure.

dear Shane

what do you think of this suggestion above? have you noticed an improvement on your side?

@dominique

I have reported all of this to Matt at Spectrasonics, and he already responded, saying he understands the problem and will fix it in the next release. For now, removing the Spectrasonics line from the ReuseAcceptRules.xml file is a good work-around.

I haven't tested whether Kontakt loads faster or slower when included in the ReuseAcceptRules.xml file, but it should be harmless to leave it in, or take it out, so individual users should do whatever works best for them.

A new version 1.3.4 Decent sampler has just been released.

With Unify there is a significant improvement but there is still a crash after several patch changes. especially on multi-layered patches.

I keep David informed as I go and invited him to visit us on the forum.

@getdunne, @mrfuzztone

Spectrasonics just released an update to Omnisphere, 2.8.1c, that seems to resolve the issue with wrong patch names.

Thank you Thsve !

dear Shane

now with the new Omnisphere 2.8.1 version, do we have to put the line "<PluginRule vendor = "Spectrasonics" />"  back into the ReuseAcceptRules.xml file? or is it no longer necessary?

hello, 

have upgraded decent sampler from 1.3.3. to 1.3.4 and now Unify is crashing on multi-layered patch 

could you tell me what I have to ckeck ? ie :  ReuseAcceptRules.xml ? where is this file ? 

TIA.

hello