BBC Discovery station demo - vst not found

(@getdunne)

Using the BPM of FILM Modern RomCom everything is fine, but even if we do not change the values on the knobs, the drums start going crazy.

(@getdunne)

Does it mean that with this type of sounds (BPM FILM) turning the knobs is not recommended?

Also in some tracks Combobox is loaded in instrument slot instead of midi slot and vst ommited

Can you include a screen capture of the error message you are seeing? ComboBox can be loaded into the MIDI Effect, Instrument or even the Audio Effect slots. It can work from anywhere so the screen capture is how it is supposed to look. If Unify's "KnownPlugin" list shows the BBC Symphonic Orchestra as a VST (not VST3) and you can load it and it plays fine without loading these patches, then I don't know what to suggest.

Here it is

@ro-mix

Make sure you have the VST (NOT VST3) version of BBC Symphony Orchestra listed in Unify's Known plug-ins list.

I can't seem to get the VST dll "BBC Symphony Orchestra (32 Bit).dll" to be added to Unify's plugins.  But no problem with "BBC Symphony Orchestra (64 Bit).dll".  As you can see in my screenshot that 64 bit is added.  I'm just dragging it over from explorer.  The + key goes on as I'm dragging but it doesn't get added to the list.  I've also tried both complete plugin rescan and "select plugin files to scan" from Operations.  Any idea why this is happening? 

Also, is the 32 bit version vst2 and the 64 bit version vst3?

on Windows:

.dll is VST2 and .vst3 is vst3 -- the latter are normally found in C:\Program Files\Common Files\vst3

Oh, ok.  Thanks for the reply.  So I guess the 64 bit dll will do for a vst2 version.  It seems to work ok.  I'm kind of wondering what the 32 bit dll is for - maybe since I'm running Win10 64bit it's not applicable to my computer.  Verified I do have a C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3\BBC Symphony Orchestra (64 Bit).vst3.

@craigr68

Many older plug-ins come in both 32-bit and 64-bit versions, which will almost always be functionally identical. Unify is a 64-bit program and can only link directly to 64-bit plug-ins, so when there's a choice, use the 64-bit version.

If you have older 32-bit-only plug-ins you just can't do without, Unify has built-in support for jBridge, or you can use something like NetVST.

VST (aka VST 2 or 2.4) and VST3 are two different programming/interface standards. Steinberg's original VST standard was hugely successful and very widely used. VST3 is newer, not backward-compatible, better in some ways, but not all.

For Unify libraries, we to prefer the older VST2 format, when available, because it usually results in smaller patch files, and also because some plug-in vendors have struggled with certain features of the VST3 interface. However, you can certainly use any of your own VST3 plug-ins with Unify.

I've had a few issues with vst3 to the point that I've excluded some in Cakewalk, so I don't pick them accidentally.  In Cakewalk I can view the header which shows vst2 at the top.  But if I look at it from within Unify, it doesn't have that header.  So it kind of confuses me.  Thanks for the in depth explanation on vsts.

It worked. Vst 64 version found well.

Hey Shane, referring to my screenshots above - Is there a way when you have a vst loaded in Unify to identify whether it is vst2 or vst3?  I've been having some issues with Syntronik vst3 patches and am in the process of converting them all to the Syntronik vst2 version.  But the first step is to identify which patches has vst3 version.  A track loaded in Cakewalk (CropperCapture1.jpg) shows this information in its header but there is no header if it is loaded in Unify (CropperCapture2.jpg).  I did figure out if I remove the vst3 version from known plugins that it will show red in Unify when I open a patch with vst3 version.  But that's a hard way to go.  Tks.

I removed all vst3 from known plugins list (Operations -> Remove all VST3 plug-ins) and then manually added some VST3 (that aren't available as VST2). I don't trust VST3 and I avoid them whenever I can.

@craigr68

Unfortunately, there isn't an easy way to tell if a patch requires VST2 ("VST") or VST3 versions of a plug-in.

The simplest thing to do is to go to Unify's Known Plug-Ins view and temporarily delete all but one version of the plug-in in question, then try to load the patch. If it can't find the plug-in, the name will appear in red, and this means it was looking for the one you deleted.

Alternatively (not for the faint of heart): If you open the .unify file in a text editor, you can search for "<PLUGIN". This will be followed by a "name=" entry with the name of the plug-in, and a "format=" entry with the format ("VST" or "VST3" or whatever).

Posted by: @robert-p

I don't trust VST3 and I avoid them whenever I can.

That's exactly where I'm at with vst3 also.  I have the real troublemakers excluded in Cakewalk and Unify so I don't accidentally pick one of them.

Posted by: @getdunne

@craigr68

Alternatively (not for the faint of heart): If you open the .unify file in a text editor, you can search for "<PLUGIN". This will be followed by a "name=" entry with the name of the plug-in, and a "format=" entry with the format ("VST" or "VST3" or whatever).

Ok, that works.  I got a handy little grep utility that just sniffed them all out.  Thanks.

(@getdunne)

Where is similink utility ?  where you can download it.

Les.

@leszek-1953

Symlink Utility is not released yet. Probably later this week.

(@getdunne)

Thanks for the info.

Leszek.

(@getdunne)

Sorry to write about OB-xd at this point. When I want to open OB-xd, the message appears as in the attached photo. What should I do and download OB-xd versions to be installed.

(hint on how to create new threads so as not to mix up topics)

Les

@leszek-1953

My guess is that you have installed a different/newer version of OB-Xd, and it's looking for its themes in your own Documents folder instead of the one under /Users/Public. I suggest you go to Unify's Known Plug-Ins view, delete ALL entries for OB-Xd, then quit and restart Unify; it should automatically re-register the OB-Xd VST that comes with Unify.

I'm pretty sure nothing important has been added to OB-Xd since version 1.5, which was basically just changes I contributed anyway.

About adding new topics: if you enter "new topic" in the search box at the top-right corner of every page on this Forum, you'll quickly find this post, where I explain the steps: https://forums.pluginguru.com/postid/4093/.

(@getdunne)

I did as you said and everything works. Thanks

Les.

(@getdunne)

"Software nerd by day, music nerd by night"  A very cool motto 👍 

PhD in Computer Science, University of Western Ontario, 1995

It's not Shane from today, but Doctor. Respect.

Les.

Hi Mr Dunne, congrats on your amazing work (and Mr. Lehmkuhl, of course). 

I read that this patch library uses the VST version of BBCSO.

Could you please tell me why VST is still preferred above AU on a Mac or why it is specific to this patch library that we should use VST? 

If I understand correctly, the VST format allows for smaller Unify patches, is that correct?

Would you advise to always add the VST format of a plugin to Unify instead of the AU version (that’s automatically selected by Logic and MainStage)?

Posted by: @fleer

Could you please tell me why VST is still preferred above AU on a Mac or why it is specific to this patch library that we should use VST?

Excellent question. The short answer is "so patches will work on both PC and Mac".

Each plug-in format has its own way of encoding the plug-in's state, which is what Unify saves in patches. As a result, when a patch is opened, e.g. on a different computer, the same plug-ins must be available, in the same formats, because a different plug-in format won't recognize the saved state.

Because we create libraries that are cross-platform PC/Mac, we can't use AU plug-ins, because they're Mac-only. This leaves VST and VST3. We prefer VST, partly because the state-data is usually a bit more compact (sometimes much more), but mostly because the VST standard is better supported in the JUCE framework we use, and also better understood by plug-in developers, hence more consistently implemented.

(Steinberg did an absolutely dreadful job of introducing VST3, so many plug-in developers--even major ones like U-He--held off supporting it and/or made mistakes, because Steinberg's documentation was so poor at first. Apple is no better; their handling of the transition to AUv3 was a train wreck. This is why there are so few AUv3 plug-ins available for the Mac, nearly six years after the launch of the new format at WWDC 2015.)

Would you advise to always add the VST format of a plugin to Unify instead of the AU version (that’s automatically selected by Logic and MainStage)?

YES. Although Unify for macOS can use AU plug-ins, all Unify patch libraries from PlugInGuru and others will require VST plug-ins (or VST3 for some newer plug-ins which aren't available in VST format). I don't advise even registering AU plug-ins to Unify's known plug-ins list, except for rare ones for which no VST[3] is available.

I'll admit it's a pain to have to go back and re-install VST[3] versions of plug-ins after only ever needing the AU versions until now, but the benefit of being able to use all the Unify patch libraries, and also create patches you can share even with Windows and Pro Tools users, is worth it.

Thank you, Dr. Dunne, perfectly clear indeed. Such a wonderful musical environment.

One more question if I may, though I guess you’ve answered this before already: will Unify ever run natively on Mac silicon (instead of through Rosetta 2)?

Posted by: @fleer

One more question if I may, though I guess you’ve answered this before already: will Unify ever run natively on Mac silicon (instead of through Rosetta 2)?

I've created a separate Forum topic to answer this complex question in full: https://forums.pluginguru.com/postid/9659/

Thank you very much,
and congrats on that NetVST project ( http://netvst.org/wiki/doku.php)