Playing MIDI Type 1 files in MIDIBox

Posted by: @richsilk

5. Set the MIDI channel of layer 2 to 2

I'm not sure but I would be surprised if you need to do this. This simply sets layer 2 to respond to incoming MIDI on channel 2. I wouldn't expect it to have any effect beyond that. Did you try leaving both layers to incoming MIDI channel ALL?

@richsilk

MIDIBox just plays back whatever MIDI events are on the selected track. For each note-on or note-off event, the MIDI channel is encoded in the event.

Unlike a DAW, MIDIBox does not (presently) play back multiple tracks simultaneously. If you want to do that, put a MIDIBox instance on as many layers as you want, load the same MIDI file into each one, and set each one to play back a different track from the file. If the MIDI file has been set up so that each track is on a different MIDI channel, you must ensure that the instrument listening to those MIDI events is set to listen to that MIDI channel.

In this situation, the layer MIDI channel settings are irrelevant. As @hallenberg says, these affect only how that layer responds to MIDI events coming into the layer from outside. It has no effect on MIDI events generated by a MIDIBox instance on that layer.

If this is not clear, please say so. And don't be hard on yourself: this stuff is quite intricate, and can be hard to figure out, but once you get comfortable with it, you'll be fine.

I see. I was misunderstanding how MIDIBox data flows into the layer. I was thinking of it as an alternate input source of MIDI that the layer itself needed to be configured to listen to, when it's the instrument plugins within the layer that have to be configured to listen to the MIDI data.  I was assuming that features like "Dup 7x next MIDI channel" would be useful for configuring 8 layers for MIDIBox on 8 different channels.

Looking at the MIDI routing diagram:

https://pluginguru.net/unify/manual/doku.php?id=midi-details

I assume MIDIBox occupies a slot within the MIDI lane of the layer like "filter 1a"

Now that I understand the flow a bit better, I might suggest a couple of improvements to make it easier to work with Type 1 files:

1. The track selection dropdown menu shows a number in parentheses next to each track name (i.e. "Piano LH (1698)") I assume that is the number of MIDI events in the track? Since Type 1 files put all notes for a specific channel in one track it would be nice if the dropdown could also list what channel that track contains events for (i.e. "Piano LH (ch2 - 1698)"). 

2. It would be nice if the "MIDI Filter" plugin could remap the channel of MIDI data flowing through it. That would allow a user to quickly remap channel 2 data from MIDIBox to channel 1 if they didn't want to reconfigure the instrument plugin to listen to channel 2.

Thanks for explaining all this. I am trying to learn, so I can unlock the full potential of Unify.

(Note: In my prior posts I mistakenly called the track-per-channel MIDI file "Type 0" instead of "Type 1"; I corrected them)

@hallenberg your suggestion made me curious so I tried it. 

Using an external program (gn1to0), I converted the Type 1 (separate track per channel) .mid file to Type 0 (one track with all channels)

Then I did this:

1. Click the "+ layer" button at the top and choose "Add MIDI Effects" > "MIDIBox MIDI File Player" 
2. Load the Type 0 .mid file into MidiBox
3. Set the MIDI source of the "MIDI 1" effects layer to "Midi In, Mono Latch", and click the "L" (turns green)
4. Create a new instrument layer with the desired instrument plugin
5. Set the "MIDI source" of the instrument layer to the "MIDI 1" effects layer, set "MIDI channel" to 1 and "MIDI channel Conversion" to 1
6. Select "Dup 15x next MIDI ch" to create a total of 16 instrument layers. Each layer will have an independent MIDI input channel, but all will remap the input data they receive from the effects layer to channel 1
7. Set the instrument plugins for the other channels as desired.
8. Set the Transport Trigger type to "MIDI/Manual stop"

When I hit a key, the MIDIBox starts and all channels begin to play. It works!

Now I can use Unify as a standalone multi-channel MIDI file player that uses my VST plugins as instruments.. which is exactly what I really wanted in the first place. Thanks for the suggestion!

@richsilk

Excellent.

I guess there are use cases for both types of MIDI file. It would be a nice feature if MIDIbox could interpret either type of MIDI file as the other type.

Posted by: @hallenberg

I guess there are use cases for both types of MIDI file. It would be a nice feature if MIDIbox could interpret either type of MIDI file as the other type.

I'm not sure what you mean. MIDIBox interprets all MIDI files the same way. Type 0 files have only one track; Type 1 can have several.

The main thing MIDIBox does not do is play more than one track at a time (e.g. on separate MIDI channels), but the work-around is to use multiple MIDIBox instances, one per layer, each loading the same MIDI file, but set to play a different track.

The workaround you describe is what I think I'm getting at, just without the 'workaround' bit. In @richsilk's case, he would be doing a lot of working around to play different MIDI files, if I understand correctly. His workaround would be to convert type-1 to type-0 using another program and then load that into a MIDI layer.

In the reverse case I guess it is possible to use type-0 files in a type-1 manner provided you know the channel number of the 'track' you want to isolate, although again this would have to be done via a MIDI layer and not a MIDIbox insert, unless the intrument you're using is MIDI-channel-aware enough to specify its own incoming MIDI channel (or in the case of multi-timbral instruments, mute any unwanted channels).

I think my brain just melted. It's not a topic I would want to waste your time on. I was just hanging out with @richsilk, that's all.

I've read through this thread a few times, and I think I understand the issue. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

• Type 0 MIDI files may contain multiple parts, mixed together into a single track, so MIDIBox plays all at once.
• Converting such a Type 0 file to Type 1 splits the parts out to separate channels, so MIDIBox can only play one at a time.
• It would be useful if MIDIBox could play a Type 1 file as though it were Type 0, i.e., play all tracks at once, on separate MIDI channels.
• It would also be useful to do the reverse.

@richsilk, @hallenberg is this it? I'm sure this is possible, and I'll look into it for a possible future update.

Posted by: @getdunne

is this it?

I think so. In essence it would be helpful if MIDI files could be used all-in or per part, regardless of which type they are. It is definitely a burden on the user to worry about which type of MIDI file they have or need to export from which other software.

By the by I think it would also be helpful to embed MIDI in a patch. Much easier to share (and manage) patches as one file than folders of dependencies. Possibly then also an option to export embedded MIDI to a separate file. The line can be drawn at editing MIDI; I think that's fairly left to other software. ... 🙂 On the other hand, it might be useful if MIDIbox could collapse note events (of varying pitch) down to a single pitch in order to do that polybox thing of playing chords, without the MIDI file needing to be edited. I realise that's a task when you have various overlapping notes, but still.

(Note that there was a comment on this thread from @hallenberg between my  "June 21, 2020 4:31 am" post and the one at "June 21, 2020 6:59 am"... where the suggestion was made to use a Type 0 file instead of a Type 1 file. I read it at the time it was posted, but somehow the post is no longer there.)

@getdunne, you're basically getting it.

My goal has been to figure out a way to turn Unify into a MIDI jukebox that can play arbitrary MIDI files of the kind you can find for free all over the internet. Back in the 90's, there was a proliferation of "General MIDI" players that played back tinny-sounding instruments on cheap soundcards. 

Now I have invested in hundreds (thousands?) of dollars worth of VST plugins that can produce professional-quality sounds that make those same MIDI files sound fantastic. I just need a way to get the MIDI into Unify, and configure it so that the notes for each instrument end up being played by the right layer.

It's been harder to do than I originally imagined. The main problem is the quality of the MIDI files themselves is all over the place, with many different formats for organizing tracks, channels and instruments within the file. I have needed to do a lot of manual conversion between types, and pre-processing in MIDI editors to produce files in a format consistent enough to use within Unify.

I was eventually able to get everything to work for a few of the higher-quality MIDI files.... the result sounds very realistic when played back on Keyscape keyboards, Omnisphere synths, BBC Orchestra Spitfire strings, etc.

While it would be nice if Unify had more flexibility for manipulating MIDI files of different formats so that I didn't have to rely on external converters, I'm just happy I found a way to do it at all.

I agree with @hallenberg's suggestions.

I'd really love to go further with this and create a "General MIDI" template that assigns the standard set of General MIDI "programs" (instrument sounds) to specific Unify layers with each program on the right channel, with a instrument plugin assigned to that program.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_MIDI

but that's a long term goal...

Posted by: @richsilk

somehow the post is no longer there

I deleted the post because I hadn't actually tested what I was suggesting.

Posted by: @richsilk

My goal has been to figure out a way to turn Unify into a MIDI jukebox that can play arbitrary MIDI files of the kind you can find for free all over the internet.

Is there an advantage to doing this in Unify? Why not use a DAW?

Posted by: @getdunne

Is there an advantage to doing this in Unify? Why not use a DAW?

That's exactly what I was trying to determine with this experiment. I have done the same thing in a DAW (Ableton Live, specifically), but was less than happy with the clumsiness of the interface for this purpose.

• Unify has a compact UI that that presents the user with just the right level of control for this purpose.
  • Bringing up a DAW takes more time than firing up Unify as a standalone app, and is overkill when all you want to do is play a MIDI file.
  • Since I'm only interested in playback, not looking at or editing the note data, I don't need or want to deal with the bloated UI conventions of a DAW.
•  Interaction with MIDI files is encapsulated in MidiBox
  • I don't need or want to interact with the actual note data
  • I'm more interested in interacting with the plugins to tweak the parameters of different instruments.
•  Unify uses much less CPU than a DAW to load lots of plugins quickly
  • Which is a big advantage when a lot of channels are needed.

If I had any other requests for MIDIBox, it would be to have the ability to click-and-drag on the playback bar to quickly "scrub" through the file, like you can for a video. I've done this absentmindly many times and was disappointed when it didn’t do anything.

@richsilk Thank you. That's pretty much what I expected, but I wanted to be clear.

MIDIBox follows Unify's Transport. I'll think about adding some mechanism to move the Transport's current playhead position.

@getdunne

I'm working on some BPM SPLITS that have midi files controlling each part. The midi files are 40 measures long at 192 bpm tempo. On some of the layers the midi data is in the middle of the measures. So they'll play at the appropriate time. But it also requires empty measures after what's played so that it will line up with the rest of that part of the song. But I guess when I load the midi file it chops it off at 24 measures. Is this even possible? I thought it had worked before but I'm not sure. I guess when it comes down to it I'll just have to subdivide the parts more, hoping to not have to.

@pbeprod

Very interesting result. Lots of DAWs seem to make it impossible to set the exact length of exported MIDI files, so people were ending up with files that were supposed to be e.g. 2 measures long, but ended up over 100 measures, with nothing after the first 2. I modified MIDIBox to chop off all that empty junk, but now you've identified a case where it needs to be retained.

Please see if you can somehow insert a harmless MIDI event in the 40th measure of these files; a pitch-bend = 0 event should work. MIDIBox will see that event and treat the sequence as 40 measures long. Let me know if that works.

@getdunne

Yeah I tried the note thing but even with setting velocity to 1 it was still sounding the note. I’ll try using automation. Thanks!!

If you are thinking of using BBC SO Core to play back midi files from the internet, be aware of this issue:

It was driving me crazy that the volume in Core instruments was jumping to over 200%, causing the mix to vary each time I loaded the project. Apparently Core does not do well with Volume (CC7) and that is used in most midi files that you would download from the interenet.

I also found that if you delete the CC7 controller in Cakewalk by Bandlab, it puts it back automatically. I haven't figured out how to get rid of it.

I do not have this problem with Core in Cakewalk if I create the midi myself. This problem occurs whether you use Unify to load Core, or use the Spitfire VST directly.

@getdunne

I tried all the different types of Midi automation available to Reason, still cuts off the last measure. I also revisited the note thing using an extremely low note at velocity one, still sounds the note. Maybe a feature that adds Measure lag, so it will Wait to start over by a designated amount of measures? 😉 

@pbeprod

Please zip and post the MIDI file here, and I'll see what I can do with it.

@getdunne

Here's the file. In this incarnation of the file, I believe it has the extra midi notes included.

@pbeprod

Thanks for sending the MIDI file. How are you creating these?

I did a bit of editing, removing the C-1 note events and leaving only one CC#1 event at the start of bar 1 and another at the start of bar 41; this seems to convince MIDIBox to treat it as a 40-bar phrase with notes only in bars 8-15 and 32-38. It seems to play OK for me; let me know if it works for you.

@getdunne

Yes i create them in Reason Suite 11.5 I do most of my creative work on my PC cause it’s got the biggest screen. I just do save as midi file and according to them they always save as midi 1 files. I only use my Mac to play live. I’ll look at it tomorrow afternoon after t wake up. Working nights. I was preparing for a show last week. Still haven’t had a chance to look at the new beta.

@getdunne

Your file works perfectly. Listen, I'll be the first to pay for your Midi File Master Class lecture series. That way I'll know all your hidden secrets.

Posted by: @pbeprod

Your file works perfectly. Listen, I'll be the first to pay for your Midi File Master Class lecture series. That way I'll know all your hidden secrets.

I'm delighted to know I managed to fix the file, and I wish I could say it was simple, but it wasn't.

I used a Python3 library called mxm.midifile, and ran your MIDI file through the tocode.py script (attached), to turn it into a new Python program which, when run, will re-generate the original MIDI file. I then analyzed the generated Python code and edited it by hand, keeping the important stuff, removing the extra events you added at the start and end, and adding in simpler ones (one CC#1=0 event at the start of bar 1, and another at the start of bar 41). The edited result (also attached), when run, generates the updated file I attached earlier.

I use a free/open-source visual MIDI file editor called MidiEditor to inspect the results on Windows. I usually have to repeat the edit-generate-view cycle several times to get the exact result I want.

@getdunne
That’s crazy! I also had looked at the file in Midi editor, as well as in Cubase. My cubase is version 5, so it’s pretty out of date. I’m hoping to get another larger external screen for my MBP and will probably start doing more on it, but MacOS doesn’t allow for as much quick cut and pasting as PC does with 3rd part apps. When John was talking Saturday about the automated patch building, are they also able to do Omnisphere libraries?

Posted by: @pbeprod

When John was talking Saturday about the automated patch building, are they also able to do Omnisphere libraries?

Probably. @zinct, @thsve, @craigr68 can any of you answer this?

Yes, I’ve done all O2 libraries I own (Johns and others) including getting metadata from O2.

@thsve

These are the O2 Libraries I've done for him

Omniverse I, II, and III

Beautifully Broken

BooomBox V1

Del Norte

Mega Magic Dreams

Percussa

O2 Toxic

Bass Box O2 and Trillian Versions

Omnipulse 2, and 3

Radio Ready

Signs of Life

I was doing Airwave Box of Noise but he suggested I do Airwave 1, 2, and 3 but if someone is doing them through Automation I'd let em. It took quite sometime to do these manually.

I also did all of John's SERUM libraries.

@pbeprod

Here is my list of unified O2 libraries:

PlugInGuru O2 Airwave V101 Multis
PlugInGuru O2 Airwave V101 Patches
PlugInGuru O2 Beautifully Broken
PlugInGuru O2 Del Norte EDM Chill
PlugInGuru O2 Del Norte EDM Chill MULTIS
PlugInGuru O2 ESC Tribute
PlugInGuru O2 Kolours for Keyscape
PlugInGuru O2 Kolours for Keyscape MULTIS
PlugInGuru O2 MegaMagic Cello
PlugInGuru O2 MegaMagic Cello MULTIS
PlugInGuru O2 MegaMagic Guitars BONUS
PlugInGuru O2 MegaMagic Guitars Part 1
PlugInGuru O2 MegaMagic Guitars Part 1 MULTIS
PlugInGuru O2 MegaMagic Guitars Part 2
PlugInGuru O2 MegaMagic Guitars Part 2 MULTIS
PlugInGuru O2 MegaMagic GUITARS V12
PlugInGuru O2 MegaMagic GUITARS V12 MULTIS
PlugInGuru O2 MegaMagic Pads
PlugInGuru O2 MegaMagic Pads MULTIS
PlugInGuru O2 MegaMagic Viola
PlugInGuru O2 MegaMagic Viola MULTIS
PlugInGuru O2 MegaMagic Violin
PlugInGuru O2 MegaMagic Violin MULTIS
PlugInGuru O2 MM Viola DEMO
PlugInGuru O2 OMG Drums V2
PlugInGuru O2 OMG URBAN RMX
PlugInGuru O2 OmniPulse
PlugInGuru O2 OmniPulse 3 CineFire
PlugInGuru O2 OmniPulse 3 CineFire MULTIS
PlugInGuru O2 OmniPulse V2
PlugInGuru O2 OmniPulse V2 MULTIS
PlugInGuru O2 OmniVerse
PlugInGuru O2 OmniVerse II
PlugInGuru O2 OmniVerse III
PlugInGuru O2 Percussa MULTIS
PlugInGuru O2 Percussa V1 BPM DRUMS
PlugInGuru O2 Percussa V1 HITS & FX
PlugInGuru O2 Sabresphere Vol 2
PlugInGuru O2 Sabresphere Vol 2 MULTIS
PlugInGuru O2 Signs of Life
PlugInGuru O2 Signs of Life BONUS
PlugInGuru O2 Signs of Life MULTIS
PlugInGuru O2 Signs of Radioactive Life
Spectrasonics O2 Atmosphere Library
Spectrasonics O2 Hardware Library
Spectrasonics O2 Omnisphere Library
Spectrasonics O2 Omnisphere Library MULTIS
Spectrasonics O2 Spotlight - EDM
Spectrasonics O2 VIP Library MULTIS
ILIO O2 Ascension
ILIO O2 EDM Fire
ILIO O2 EDM Ignition

All are done using an automated approach with as little manual work as possible. I have not sent these to John since they don't meet the requirements set up for unified libraries. In my unified libraries patch names are based on the O2 names so prefixes doesn't always follow the "rules" for Unify. Comment, Author, Categories (=Subfolder+Type+Genre) and Tags(=Model+Mood) are derived directly from O2. I have also split single patches and multis in separate libraries as seen in the list. At the moment the Multis are one layer, but I have experimented with automatic splitting to separate layers in Unify. The result varies depending on how the multis are done in O2 so it is difficult to automate this process.

I've also unified libraries from several other VSTis such as Massive, Absynth, Kontakt, Serum, Vital, RMX and others using the same approach. I also unified the three PlugInGuru Breaktweaker libraries that John has shared. I've sent a unified version of Cherry Audio Polymood to John, but I think he is drowning in libraries sent from us at the moment 😀.

@thsve

Impressive. Thanks you’ve definitely saved me some time. I can focus on my own stuff! Do you have an automated way of creating Rex2 files from wave files to the SFZ format? I’ve been converting Airwaves loops into rex2 files for the higher quality and less CPU drag from not having to use O2’s Granular. Manually it takes me about two days per 150. I’ve also converted approx 5000 of my own sound files into sfz format.

@pbeprod

I actually did some automatic Rex file conversion a while ago. I will see if I find it.

@pbeprod

Found it! You can read about it here: https://forums.pluginguru.com/questions-about-unify-v1-0/rx2-to-unify-tutorial/#post-3985 .

As you will see it is not just "press one button" process unfortunately.

After I wrote the description I actually created a script (AutoHotKey) to automate converting rx2-files to wav-slices and a corresponding midi file.

I think that it would be possible to automate the last patch creation steps quite easily.

Let me know if you want som more information. 

It feels like we gotten quite far from the original topic of this post 🤔 .

@getdunne

Hey I think I had finally narrowed down my issues with Midi files to a setting in Reason. As shown in the picture, when I have the red zigzag button selected it affects my ability to play the files, but when it's not selected it sends the naked midi data and will play how it's sent.