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unify 1.10.2 Crashes when changing sounds with the keyboards to favorite

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(@uisbf)
Eminent Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 16
Topic starter  

Hi folks,

as I do lots of Unifying of my libs like UVI and others, I finally come to the point where I want to favorite my patches.
I get like one crash in 5 minutes when inside one library (in this case my unified GForce Minimonsta 2 when I go through my patches ..
Its not the favorite button. Its the change ..

(CRASH = HANGS - get the wait cursor like forever)

Am at MAC M2

How do I do this:
1. Select Library

2. NO FILTERS

3. Select first Patch (in the upper case a nice BASS 😉

4. play with my keyboard to check the sound

5. Press F if I like it

6. go down with the arrow keys

 

Within step 6 I get crashes, today like 4 in max 30 min.
I can reproduce if I

1. Restart UNify

2. Select Library

3. Select one item

4. go down one by one and hit down VERY FAST it happens after like around 10 arrow down

5. Happens at all libs ..

6. Sometimes even happens when I change slowly ..

Sorry to say this really makes Unify UNUSABLE for me .. 
Is there any way I can debug this - guess not .. 

Greets, Steffen

This topic was modified 4 months ago 2 times by uisbf

   
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(@getdunne)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4367
 

@uisbf

There are multiple issues here.

  1. You say that Unify hangs (no response) rather than crashing (sudden exit). We recently discovered a Mac-specific bug, where Unify could hang when it attempts to close a plug-in window. If you are actually opening the Minimonsta 2 window at step 4, this could be the problem. The bug is fixed in the current beta.
  2. Using the arrow button to change patches too quickly has always been problematic, because Unify has no way of knowing when a plug-in has finished loading.
    • All plug-ins take some time to load.
    • Some take extra time to set up before they are ready to play.
    • A few plug-ins do a lot of extra processing in the background even after they are ready to play, and during that time, they may not be able to accept new state-data.
  3. Some of the above can be improved by adding the plug-in to Unify's layer-reuse files. See https://pluginguru.net/unify/manual/doku.php?id=layer-reuse. Note that not all plug-ins support instance reuse.

   
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(@uisbf)
Eminent Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 16
Topic starter  

@getdunne

Wonderful if 1.) can fix the bug in general .. 

For 2nd - this is a typical issue in UI applications,
what I or we (in user based apps where we needed to load modules or data) usually did is,
a) use async methods if possible
b) not load immediately - but after a certain delay - which is around the typical time to fast navigate with keys ..
like 250ms for instance .. It does not delay too much but it even speeds the process when navigating fast.

Maybe b) could be sth you could think about.

In any case, thx a lot for your answer.


   
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(@uisbf)
Eminent Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 16
Topic starter  

Btw at the site mentioned, there is a note which says there could be or should be a place (topic) in the forum where we as users can post working reuse entries - is this anywhere ?

When I searched I saw some questions regarding CherryAudio Plugins .. 
https://forums.pluginguru.com/questions-about-unify-v1-0/reuse-cherry-audio/#post-13627

but nothing else ..


   
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(@getdunne)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4367
 

Posted by: @uisbf

a) use async methods if possible
b) not load immediately - but after a certain delay - which is around the typical time to fast navigate with keys ..
like 250ms for instance .. It does not delay too much but it even speeds the process when navigating fast.

Asynchronous (background) loading of plug-ins would address a few problems in Unify, but converting the current code to work this way would be very difficult. I have implemented experimentally in another program, and the architecture is quite different. It's on my long-term to-do list.

There is already a mechanism in Unify where patch loading is disabled during, and for 500 milliseconds after, a new patch is loaded. I had to add this when I added MIDI patch selection in v1.10.0, because MIDI controllers often send program-change messages much faster than Unify could possibly respond. This mechanism appears to have bugs, as you (and others) have found when using the arrow keys.

 


   
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(@getdunne)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4367
 

Posted by: @uisbf

Btw at the site mentioned, there is a note which says there could be or should be a place (topic) in the forum where we as users can post working reuse entries - is this anywhere ?

There was no such topic in the forum, but I just added one: https://forums.pluginguru.com/unify-setup-and-configuration/

 


   
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(@uisbf)
Eminent Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 16
Topic starter  

@getdunne Thx so much for your efforts to get Unify better and better. IMHO is soo underrated. Am doing all in my power to convince people to give it a try .. When I am done with Unifying all of my libs I will see where to help .. Right now this still takes some time .. But have done like 100 libraries with more than 10.000 sounds so - will get done anytime soon. Will find a way then to give this back to the community somehow .. 
There will always be double work in our lives .. So even at the main Unify page - every now and then I find a new library .. Maybe a creation day or a database based setup would help there too .. As this is in my area of interest - maybe this could be sth I can help out.


   
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(@uisbf)
Eminent Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 16
Topic starter  

BTW: I got another issue lately. When I tested some sounds - I felt that suddenly when changing patches fast - I felt notes were hanging .. Am not fully sure about this - as some have an ARP latch feature. I will try to find out whats or if there is an issue around this ..

IMHO UNify patch changes should work like the switch in a current workstation, with seamless switching between sounds .. then and this would be my goal - I can forget about buying a new Montage M or things like this which cannot really compare in terms of sound .. 
As I have a Focusrite RED Dante Interface this would be my personal favorite on stage. It has 8 stereo in 8 stereo out with Dante .. so NO USB and long cables .. A setup with 2 MacBooks and 2 MIDI Keyboards like the NI MK3 or the Novation SL would be my favorites ..

Please let me dream - but nothing is impossible 😉
For me personally Unify is the new Montage .. 


   
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(@getdunne)
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Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4367
 

Posted by: @uisbf

There will always be double work in our lives .. So even at the main Unify page - every now and then I find a new library .. Maybe a creation day or a database based setup would help there too .. As this is in my area of interest - maybe this could be sth I can help out.

If you're interested in helping with the main PlugInGuru site, please email John directly at admin@pluginguru.com. He will be happy to hear from you.

Thank you for your kind words about Unify It's very much a labor of love for John and me. To do everything would require a much larger team, but that is unaffordable. Please continue your efforts to get more people interested in Unify!

 


   
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(@uisbf)
Eminent Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 16
Topic starter  

@getdunne I just had an idea how to do SEEMLESS SWITCHING WITH SCENES ... 

If we see the Scenes in Montage this could be something we could do for "LIVE SOUNDS" ..

Aka - have multiple sounds in one patch and have scenes to switch them .. 
aka - they are still present - so seamless - but they dont get anymore KeyDown events, also no CC events.
Cool would be be to define - if CCs like Sustain stay .. 
So I could have a big pad with Sustain - and switch to another Scene and the sound has still the Sustain ..
Sometimes this would be annoying - but sometimes cool - it depends .. 

But all in ALL - a switching ON and OFF for scenes ... aka 
- Scene 1 = LAYER 1 +2 + 3

- Scene 2 = Layer 1 + 6 in a Splitmode

- maybe switching on BOTH or multiple would be also cool 

maybe sth like this is already possible - am not sure ..
The only thing as a start we would need therefor would be a map to register CCs to say 8 scenes, and a CC to control the same parameter for those like volume or modulation 
and of cause the mapping of scenes with layers - aka layer 1 = ALL SCENES, or SCENE 1, or SCENE 1+2 etc.

-> What do you think - would sth like this be a big thing to program, guess not as everything is there already ..
 


   
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(@getdunne)
Illustrious Member Admin
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4367
 

@uisbf

As you say, everything you have suggested can already be set up in Unify as part of a single patch. See the first example given on this manual page about "patch variations": https://pluginguru.net/unify/manual/doku.php?id=patch-variations

The basic trick is to load all patches you wish to switch among, into separate embedded-Unify INST layers, and set up a macro knob to switch the layer midiEnable parameters on and off as the knob is turned (either using the mouse or MIDI CC). You can set up the macro parameter-links so as to select the INST layers one at a time, or in various combinations, whichever is appropriate for the "scenes" you need. Changes will be "seamless" (without audio glitches) because we are switching MIDI, not audio, and all layers remain active even when input MIDI to them is disabled, so for example, reverb and delay effects will continue to ring out even after a layer is disabled.

The price of all this is, of course, memory and CPU usage, but all live-host environments including e.g. Apple's MainStage work exactly this way. You could create custom libraries of these "multi-scene" patches, either just a handful of common combinations, or in the extreme, one patch per song, with patches named starting with an initial number (e.g. "01 Hey Jude", "02 Let It Be", ... , "16 Come Together") so they appear in the corrected order in the patch list when the library is selected.

I'm not suggesting this is trivial to set up;I'm merely pointing out that it's possible. If I were ever to add "seamless patch switching" and "set lists" features to Unify, the implementation would basically be like this, buried under a nice GUI.


   
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(@uisbf)
Eminent Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 16
Topic starter  

Again thx a lot - Will try to find a way to generalize this approach somehow ..

Will try with the MIDI Keyboards
a) Arturia Keylab,
b) NI Kontrol S61 MK3
c) Novation SL61 MK3
to find a possible way to arrange this .. 


   
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