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December 21, 2020 12:37 am
* An enhanced Macro naming feature where patch makers can name each of the 4 "banks" of macro knobs. Including the flexibility to "name" subsets of macros within a "bank"? For example, if some bank has knob assignments for 3 effects arranged 3 + 2 + 3 "knobs per effect" = 8 knobs in the bank, one could "name" the bank "Master FX" or whatever, and also "name" the sub-groups "LPF -12", or "Ring Mod", in addition to naming the individual macro knobs "Freq", and "Res" or whatever.
Of course, Unify's flexibility for combining multiple "parameter changes" under one Macro means these pedestrian kinds of directly named "trees" for one function like "Master FX, Notch Filter, Bandwidth" might not be used much. But the idea of someone being able to create a Unify patch that includes a "Solar System" Macro bank and a sub-group of 3 knobs on that bank named "Moon Controls" where the knobs in the sub-group are labeled "Phase", "Brightness", and "Glow" could still provide a solid opportunity for patch creators to communicate with patch users, more specifically for patch creators to communicate with themselves as patch users 6 months (or even 6 hours) later.
* "Click & Drag" selection in combo box
* Since the red midi device "connection points" (ports) are on the right side of the "device widgets", default the combo box midi input and output widgets to the right side of the window too.
* Give the Macro Controls more real estate. Keep the current "single bank at a time" option, and add "scrolling versus accordion" style options, maybe even give the macros a "pop out to your own window" option. Especially for live performance situations, it would be nice to have a single view of all 32 macro knobs you could monitor in real time.
* Add an option to "freeze" a patch. I may be blowing smoke, but it seems like Unify or my DAW (Ableton Live) or both "saves more state" by default than I necessarily always want. What I mean is, for example, if I start from an "init patch" in Unify and load some "Instrument patch" into a Layer and then mess around with the instrument a bunch before deciding to save this "init" patch as some "real" patch, I would like to be able to choose whether or not to save the "current state" or the "last preset loaded's state" of the Instrument in the Unify patch. I realize, I can do that now by reloading the patch from disk before saving, and I can imagine this becoming a nightmare of a "save operation", clicking through 52 "which state to save?" dialogs every time you save a deep Unify patch. So I'm not sure it's feasible, but it seems to be too easy to accidentally save the current state of everything (like Macro settings) in Unify, versus the state of the "Instrument patches" when they were at some "known state". (Not just when I save a Unify patch, but also it seems related to when I save the "song session" in my DAW)
I would like to be able to set a Unify option such that when I reload some "song session file" I saved at the end of my DAW session the other day, Unify will load itself into the reloaded "song session" today from Unify's "last saved state" as opposed to whatever state it was in when I saved the DAW "song file" the other day.
(Maybe this is specific to Ableton Live, but I find myself reloading Instrument patches from disk a lot because I "messed around" with stuff and then saved the song file which saves the whole state of the entire "song session" at that point in time. When I have to reload Instrument patches it's because I only wanted to save new tracks or clips or whatever, not necessarily also "here's exactly where you left off" ghost patches of every Instrument I "fiddled with" before the save.) Because the "saved state" of Unify can include the states of so many "other VSTs", this kind of accidental "patch corruption" can be more difficult to unwind. One thing I loved (and hated at times) about "Analog Lab" before I got the full "V collection" was that you couldn't save anything you changed. Even after a DAW "session save", the original "untampered with" Analog Lab preset always reloaded every time you opened a song file. That is/was part of the "incentive" to get Minilab / Analog Lab users to go for the whole V collection, the ability to "save your creations". But I really liked that "feature" for its own merits, I could "mess around" all day, save my song again, and come back the next day to the "original preset" rather than "wherever I left off when the song was saved". I lament its disappearance after I got the whole V collection. (The same no-saving "feature" forced me to record any "customized presets" I wanted to "save" as audio files which lead me into "sampling"...))
* Add a "reload the same patch from disk again" operation (global, layer, instrument levels) There are plenty of operational options for "moving forward", for saving "new patch work" and moving on, not so many for "undoing" and trying something else. Looking for a quick and top-level workflow: load preset, fiddle in one direction, reload same preset, fiddle in another direction, reload again. (Also helping to solve above issue)
* Add a "patch ring" for Instruments so one could, for example, load maybe 5 patches into the ring and then a user could use one X/Y control to morph all the Instrument parameters involved between the various patches loaded in the ring.
** Add "LFO modulation" to the "patch ring" so one could automate morphing among patches in the ring.
mj_prod reacted
December 21, 2020 2:17 am
Thank you for all these ideas. In future, consider creating multiple forum topics rather than one shotgun-blast 😊 .
I think you have identified four distinct topic-areas here:
- Macro controls
- Allow user to name knob groups
- More display/layout options (expanded view, separate window, all 32 knobs at once, etc.)
- Plug-in parameter morphing
- With X/Y control
- LFO controlled
- ComboBox
- MIDI pins on nodes should go on same side as MIDI I/O nodes
- Click/drag selection (I'm guessing you mean ability to select multiple nodes at once, and drag as a group)
- Patch/state saving
- Lots of ideas about how Unify can magically save intermediate states, so you don't have to
- Undo function
Allow me to address these one at a time.
- Macro controls
- I like the idea of user-names for knob groups.
- Our long-term plans for Macro controls cover all this and MUCH more, but it will take a lot of work to get there.
- Plug-in parameter morphing
- This is a fantastic idea!
- ComboBox
- Both ideas are on the to-do list, along with many others.
- Patch/state saving
- I've read your suggestions a few times, and I confess I can't resolve any specific new features that would add enough value to be worth the effort to create them.
- Anytime you find a nice sound in Unify, you can save it as a patch. If you want to group them, add "1", "2", etc. to the names, or if you really want to go crazy, create a new library.
- Forgive me, but maybe I'm missing something? Feel free to elaborate here and let's discuss.
mj_prod reacted
Topic starter
December 23, 2020 6:20 am
@getdunne It's unclear to me if you want to break out into different topics now, or in lieu of future blasts. Thanks for the responses.
You picked up what I was throwing down, except for a couple of places I'll elaborate.
I didn't try multi-selecting in the combo box with Ctrl+Click, or any control combo but Click&Drag. If multi-selecting isn't possible at all yet, then yes, whenever multi-select is implemented, all standard options please. Yes, I was referring to widget arrangement, moving groups of them around the window. But, copy/paste of a multi-selected "group of controls" either within a combo box or between two boxes would also be useful. However, I'm pretty sure you all don't have plans for a "super combo box", a'la Bidule. I'm happy there is what there is.
On the fourth point, I reread what I wrote and I'm not surprised you didn't really follow my words. Hopefully a second pass will help. For starters all "content creation" programs have to assume that every time a users "saves" that the user wants to save everything they've created in the program, the whole "state" of the program, their creation, at that time. Whatever the content; video, website, audio, being created. That's the way it should be.
However, a "content creation" program like Ableton Live can also be used as a "content performance" program, and it is in the "content performance" mode that my "freeze" option request would mostly apply. I'm not sure how but I know Analog Lab, if that's the only "V Collection" player plugin installed, works the way I'm thinking. The factory presets always reload when songs reload. I think the plugin never gives the DAW the "actual" state of whatever Instrument preset is loaded in memory when the DAW is "saving the song", Analog Lab always gives the "factory preset" state of whatever Instrument preset is loaded when the DAW is saving. For Analog Lab and Arturia, that's a form of "copy protection" and/or "marketing" to encourage people to buy the "full version" of any or all of the synths featured in Analog Lab. It worked on me. I own "V Collection 6" now. (But Analog Lab doesn't work the same way any longer, now Analog Lab gives the DAW the "actual in-memory state" when the DAW is "saving")
What I was asking for was an option to "freeze" a Unify patch with a checkbox or something kind of the way Analog Lab presets are "frozen". If I "freeze" some patch, thereafter (until/unless unfrozen) I would want to get a warning/confirmation dialog "Are you sure you want to overwrite a frozen patch?" if/when I try to "Save" in Unify ("Save As" always allowed); and more importantly if a DAW asks for Unify's current "state" of a "frozen patch" because the DAW is saving the "song file", I would want Unify (like Analog Lab) to answer the DAW's request for the "save state" with the "state" of the "frozen patch" (from disk?) instead of whatever "state" is currently "in Unify's memory". Does "song save plugin state interrogation" actually work that way? In other words, every time a DAW opens a (performance) song file containing an instance of Unify with a "frozen" patch loaded, Unify always sounds like the frozen patch (at the time it was "last" frozen) to start and not some "ghost patch" of what was in memory when the song was last saved.
Are the waters still muddy? Hopefully I didn't take you down too many rabbit holes.
December 23, 2020 3:42 pm
A host program like Unify can only ask a plug-in for its current state. There is no mechanism to request the state prior to any change the user made.
If you load a plug-in into Unify, open that plug-in and load one of its presets, then save a Unify patch, you will basically save that preset without change. You can then re-load the Unify patch, muck around and make arbitrarily many changes, and provided you don't re-save the Unify patch, you can revert to the original preset state anytime you want. (That's what the revert button is for.)
I'm not clear what you want to do, that can't be done this way. Perhaps you could explain with a simple example?
Topic starter
December 24, 2020 7:26 am
Ok - yes, the revert button. I think i just learned a semi painful related lesson.
and provided you don't re-save the Unify patch, you can revert to the original preset state anytime you want.
...in a situation where I have done exactly that, mucked around and didn't re-save the Unify patch. If instead, I save the Ableton Live song file hosting Unify, the "mucked around" stuff does get saved with the song file, which makes what I have been calling a "ghost patch" in Unify (or any plugin) because the "mucked around" stuff isn't really saved anywhere "permanent" like a real patch, and then the ghost settings masquerade as the "named patch" when the song file reloads from disk in the DAW. (and the "ghost patch" gets "updated" every time the song saves after any mucking around) I think one aspect of the "freeze option" I have been attempting to clearly describe would just automate "remembering to 'revert Unify' right before saving certain song files in my DAW". I'll see if I can't figure out a workflow for myself that helps me remember reverting and saving for more consistently desirable results.
The other angle of the option was related to your caveat "provided you don't re-save the Unify patch" in the quote. "Freezing" certain patches would allow an extra layer of protection against "accidentally" saving over (re-saving) "valuable" Unify patches. Fortunately for me, such mistakes have not been too costly (yet?), but for example on more than one occasion, I have accidentally clicked "update" when I meant to click "save as" in Unify's Save dialog. (and I only bought Unify at Thanksgiving). If a patch was "frozen" and I clicked "Update" in the Save dialog, there would be one more warning to click through.
January 2, 2021 9:48 pm
Hi, I asked a question about sidechaining on the live stream and was directed to the forum. Hopefully this is the right place.
There are some plugins that require two inputs (MMorph from Melda is an example, but not the only one). They can take input as Left and Right channels or as Main and Sidechain. I prefer sidechain, but there isn't a way to do that in Unify. Obviously this isn't something Pump House is suited for, as I'm actually trying to route signals instead of just ducking.
So can you add the ability to sidechain layers, or am I just missing it somewhere?
January 3, 2021 3:05 am
Hi, I asked a question about sidechaining on the live stream and was directed to the forum. Hopefully this is the right place.
There are some plugins that require two inputs (MMorph from Melda is an example, but not the only one). They can take input as Left and Right channels or as Main and Sidechain. I prefer sidechain, but there isn't a way to do that in Unify. Obviously this isn't something Pump House is suited for, as I'm actually trying to route signals instead of just ducking.
So can you add the ability to sidechain layers, or am I just missing it somewhere?
The layer system isn't good for things like sidechaining, because layers are processed simultaneously on multiple threads. To route the output of one layer into another, they must be processed in sequence.
This is one of many reasons why we added ComboBox, which allows for entirely arbitrary signal routing, but with only single-threaded processing.
January 5, 2021 7:14 pm
I have just recently become aware of Unify and am excited about it. While it's perhaps centered on "patch/preset design", I am assessing its use for "generative music". Of course there is no absolute distinction between the two, but let's say that I am aiming at somewhat longer typical time-scales, and wish to: use multiple, interacting sequencers, sometimes in hierarchical fashion; use random decisions; and maintain an evolving state, via one or more finite-state machines, that represent mood, time signature, etc.
I use Ableton with M4L, which offers a lot of tools in this direction but also has some annoying rules and quirks about MIDI flow in the main DAW area. I'm wondering if some workflow could benefit from migrating inside Unify. I haven't purchased, and don't yet have a specific feature request (and I see uses for what you've already got and/or bundled---ComboBox and BlueARP are cool) but generally want to encourage the growth and inclusion of more tools making life sweeter for generative music, and more broadly for fans of modular-synth music-making, IDM, evolving ambient soundscapes, etc.
January 5, 2021 8:14 pm
Your wish may yet be granted. We've been approached by the developer of a new generative plug-in, and will be looking into these possibilities.
If you don't mind doing some coding, have a look at Lua Protoplug, a completely generic Lua-based scripting plug-in, which works well in Unify and could certainly be used for generative stuff.
