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lawajava
(@lawajava)
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August 22, 2020 12:19 am  

One more cool thing in Unify is that when saving a custom preset, you can save one which has the instrument as Komplete Kontrol, and within Komplete Kontrol you can have Kontakt, and a Kontact instrument already loaded.  In just a click of the Unify preset name the patch comes up and your Komplete Kontrol keyboard lights up according to the patch in Kontakt.  So that's amazing!

If I want to have two Komplete Kontrol layers, each with their own Kontakt and Kontakt instrument - this does work in Unify as is.

What happens presently is that the most recent preset layer added then takes control of the lights and the control knobs on the Komplete Kontrol keyboard.

This feature request is to have some way in Unify to be able to activate whichever Komplete Kontrol layer you need to by clicking on the layer so that the lights and control knobs talk to Komplete Kontrol based on that activated layer.

For now, a single layer works fantastic.

More than one layer still works for all of the Komplete Kontrol layers, but only the last one loaded talks to the Komplete Kontrol keyboard.

Hoping for more control - because this is already a big time saver and a very welcome feature as is!


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getdunne
(@getdunne)
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Posts: 1606
August 22, 2020 2:15 am  

@lawajava

How does this work with multiple Komplete Kontrol instances in a regular DAW? What do you do to select which instance controls the lights?


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SSquared
(@ssquared)
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Posts: 89
August 22, 2020 8:12 am  

One of the limitations of Komplete Kontrol is it does not allow for layers.  The same issue occurs when layering in a DAW.  Only one layer can be actively controlled by the knobs at a time.  To switch which layer is active you will need to select the layer in Unify and open the editor for KK.  There should be a little piano icon at the top.  Click it to activate and this layer should now become the new controllable layer.

I'm currently on vacation and not near my KK keyboard to try this out, but I believe those are the steps.

Layering will still play all layers with the keyboard, but KK allows only a single active instance (controllable with the knobs) at a time and they don't make it easy to switch without some manual intervention.

Ableton Live 10, Omnisphere, Native Instruments, Diva, SynthMaster, Alchemy 1.55, Addictive Keys, Unify


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getdunne
(@getdunne)
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August 22, 2020 10:42 pm  

@ssquared

So in a DAW (not Unify), if you create four tracks with four separate KK instances, you can only open the GUI for one instance at a time? How do you set which one is connected to the controller knobs/lights?


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SSquared
(@ssquared)
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Posts: 89
August 23, 2020 3:58 am  

@getdunne

When using Komplete Kontrol within a DAW, selecting the track SHOULD switch to the new instance of KK.  All knobs/lights will relate to the KK instance on that track.  That is how it works with the KK host-integrated DAWs such as Ableton (I forget the others).  It's super slick and works very well.  Within Unify, it should work the same way.  If a Unify patch contains a single KK instance, then the KK keyboard knobs should control just that one instance.  I wish I could verify this to be sure.  I may not be able to check this out until Monday night.  But I feel this is how it has worked for me within Unify.

The issue comes when attempting to layer multiple instances of KK in a single track.  This is similar to layering multiple instances in a Unify patch, which I think might be the original question.  Only a single instance can be the "active" instance at a time.  Unfortunately, even clicking on a layer in your DAW or within a Unify layer will not make it active.  You have to actually enter the KK instance (edit), and along the top will be a little keyboard icon.  You must click on that to tell the system "this is the layer I want to be active on my KK keyboard".  Then the knobs/lights will relate to the newly selected instance.  This has been a long running request to allow KK to handle multiple layers.

But...this is a BIG benefit of Unify and was one of the first things I tried out when I got Unify.  You can define the 8 macro knobs to control specific parts of each layer.  For example, you can define Macro 1 to control filter cutoff for what is on layer 1.  Macro 2 can control an overdrive for layer 1.  Macro 3 can control a parameter (or more) on layer 2.  And so on.  You can then save this as a USER preset in Komplete Kontrol.  This is not quite the same as the pre-defined knob controls Native Instruments has provided, but it does allow you to control parameters across the layers, up to a maximum of the 8 Unify macro knobs.  For me, and many others, this is the solution we have found to give us the ability to control multiple KK layers with knobs.  This does not resolve any issues with lights, though.  If you want to see lights for keyboard splits, you will still need to manually set which instance you want to be active.

Once Unify adds more macro knobs, the amount of control over the layers will increase, allowing for even more in-depth control over the separate layers.  I highly recommend if anyone is having problems with Komplete Kontrol's handling of layers, to check out Unify as a solution.

Ableton Live 10, Omnisphere, Native Instruments, Diva, SynthMaster, Alchemy 1.55, Addictive Keys, Unify


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getdunne
(@getdunne)
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August 23, 2020 4:47 pm  
Posted by: @ssquared

...That is how it works with the KK host-integrated DAWs such as Ableton (I forget the others).  It's super slick and works very well.

...Unfortunately, even clicking on a layer in your DAW or within a Unify layer will not make it active.  You have to actually enter the KK instance (edit), and along the top will be a little keyboard icon.  You must click on that to tell the system "this is the layer I want to be active on my KK keyboard".  Then the knobs/lights will relate to the newly selected instance.

So you're saying there's a manual way to choose which KK instance connects to the keyboard lights/knobs, and some kind of magic programming trick that NI-blessed apps can do, to effectively click that "little keyboard icon" for you at appropriate times.

NI gives their blessing only in return for significant fees and legal conditions, so it may be some time before we can get it.


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SSquared
(@ssquared)
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August 25, 2020 4:16 am  

@getdunne

Posted by: @getdunne

So you're saying there's a manual way to choose which KK instance connects to the keyboard lights/knobs, and some kind of magic programming trick that NI-blessed apps can do, to effectively click that "little keyboard icon" for you at appropriate times.

Yes, you can manually select which KK instance is given lights/knobs control.  I'll explain that below in the Unify section.  NI has also provided scripts (using OSC) to integrate with a given DAW.  The website states the following DAWs: Logic Pro X, Ableton Live, Cubase, Nuendo, and GarageBand.  These nicely integrate with the KK keyboards for editing, mixing, and transport controls.  I know there is a user made script for some partial integration with FL Studio.  And someone has created a Linux driver for the KK S-series keyboard to access some nice features NI has hidden.

I use the KK S61 MK2 with Ableton Live in my personal setup.  Though there are some limitations, I do really enjoy how the two work together.

I ran through a few tests tonight to verify what I said earlier and investigate a little further.

Ableton Live

Using Ableton Live, yes, as you switch tracks, it will automatically swap knob/light control on the keyboard to match the KK instance on the selected track.  Perhaps this is accomplished through the provided scripts.  The scripts are compiled python, and there is no published NI API.

Roland Zenbeats

This is the only other DAW on my computer I can test out.

  • Added KK instance to 1st track.  Keyboard lights/knobs control KK as expected.
  • Added KK instance to 2nd track.  Keyboard lights/knobs control this KK instance as expected.
  • Switch to 1st track and keyboard now plays the correct sound, but lights/knobs still control KK on 2nd track.  To resolve, needed to open VST editor for KK on Track 1 and select the little keyboard icon to manually switch control to this instance (described in Unify section).

Unify Standalone

  • Unify single patches - I created two Unify patches with Komplete Kontrol.  One had DIVA and the other had Native Instrument's The Grandeur piano.  When I switch between these two patches, the KK keyboard lights/knobs control DIVA or The Grandeur as expected.  This is GREAT!
  • Unify multi-layered patch - This is the case I think the original post was asking about.
    • In this scenario, adding the first Komplete Kontrol instance works fine.  Keyboard lights/knobs control this KK instance.
    • Next, adding a 2nd layer ALSO with Komplete Kontrol and the KK keyboard is now set to control this 2nd layer's instance.  I browsed to a patch and loaded it into the 2nd layer.  I now have a two-layered patch.  The KK keyboard will PLAY both sounds as the correct layer, but the knobs will control only the LAST added layer (in this case, layer 2).
  • If you want to now control the 1st layer, you need to go to the 1st layer and enter the editor for KK.  Once open, there is a little keyboard icon along the top of the KK dialog (see attached image file).  Click on this and the keyboard knobs will now revert to controlling the 1st layer.  I have attached a file showing what to click on.

 

The one issue NI has not addressed is layers.  Even though KK instance layer selection does not work in Unify, it does not work anywhere (not even the integrated DAWs) as there is currently no way to have the KK keyboard auto-select a KK instance inside of a layer.  It's been discussed on the NI forums and users have suggested other applications which will allow you to do this.  They all require the user to manually map macro knobs to VST parameters and save as a User NKS file.  This is where Unify is a good fit.  You can currently define the 8 macro knobs to control different VST parameters in a layer and, in a sense, give the KK keyboard knobs access to the various layers (but only as YOU, the user, have defined).

NI added a feature to allow the keyboard to add multiple effects and edit all effect layers directly from the keyboard.  There was some hope instrument layers may follow, but at this point, updates are few and rare.

Ableton Live 10, Omnisphere, Native Instruments, Diva, SynthMaster, Alchemy 1.55, Addictive Keys, Unify


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