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LAYERS | High - Low Note Priority?

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praisetracks
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There could be a chance it is in the MIDI filter so I will check that as well but thought I would post this here just in case.

So with all of the amazing potential in Unify layers, it would be great to be able to tell a layer to only play the TOP NOTE/S of a chord. This is great when you have a thick orchestral layer but want to have a nice strong string section to carry the top note of the melody without creating a lot of busyness in the other layers, it would sort of set it apart as a solo instrument within the scope of the entire layer.

You could also take this in the other direction so for instance, a String or synth bass could carry the lowest note in the layer and have some sort of logic where it would follow the lowest note in a chord. I think that Sonuscore's The Orchestra Complete has something like this.

All the best,
Simeon

 

Simeon Amburgey
https://www.youtube.com/praisetracks


   
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(@getdunne)
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@praisetracks

This is a great idea, and should be simple to implement, but might already be possible using BlueARP - can anyone here confirm or deny?


   
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Robert.P
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Posted by: @getdunne

(..) but might already be possible using BlueARP - can anyone here confirm or deny?

It is possible with BlueARP - up to five notes can be handled that way (K1-K5). Algorithms "by pitch" and "as played" prioritizes lower notes, while "by pitch desc." and "as played desc." gives priority to higher notes.

Output Filter section allows you to define output range of the sequence, which usually is different for bass, strings etc (output range - wrap).

To use BlueARP's input/output filter section only, you can disable the arp engine by switching it to "thru mode"


   
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mschiff
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You can also do this by setting the key range for each instrument. Perhaps not quite as accurate, but it is simple and works well.


   
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f-aime
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Posted by: @praisetracks

There could be a chance it is in the MIDI filter so I will check that as well but thought I would post this here just in case.

So with all of the amazing potential in Unify layers, it would be great to be able to tell a layer to only play the TOP NOTE/S of a chord. This is great when you have a thick orchestral layer but want to have a nice strong string section to carry the top note of the melody without creating a lot of busyness in the other layers, it would sort of set it apart as a solo instrument within the scope of the entire layer.

You could also take this in the other direction so for instance, a String or synth bass could carry the lowest note in the layer and have some sort of logic where it would follow the lowest note in a chord. I think that Sonuscore's The Orchestra Complete has something like this.

All the best,
Simeon

 

+100 excellente idea, would be GREAT !


   
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Robert.P
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Another vote from me - if it is simple to implement then it would be great to have it. BlueARP can do that only with midi notes running thru the arp engine (so everything would be "arpped" and long notes cut down).


   
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(@getdunne)
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Creating a MIDI filter which passes only the highest or lowest note of input chords is simple in theory, but less so in practice, because the note-on events don't all come in at once.

Suppose you play a C major triad: C, E, G, and the filter is set for highest-note priority, so only the G should pass through it. Now suppose that the G key goes down slightly late. The filter sees the C and E note-on events, and allows the E to pass. Very shortly after that, the note-on for G arrives. Should the filter immediately send a note-off for E before sending the note-on for G? This seems the only practical choice, but won't always sound good, e.g. if the downstream instrument has already triggered a loud and persistent E note).

The only other approaches I can think of would involve MIDI time-quantization, and require the player (or input MIDI sequence) to lead the beat. This quickly becomes very complex.


   
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Robert.P
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Posted by: @getdunne

Should the filter immediately send a note-off for E before sending the note-on for G?

How about the "legato mode /mono mode/ poly mode" switch? In "Legato/mono" mode, a "note off" message could be send immediately, while in poly mode (with selectable max. no. of voices/notes) midi notes could be normally added/subtracted 

P.S. Ref. to your example: if the "note priority" would be set to "lowest" while playing the triad the way you described, the result would always be the C note (which also is a root note in this case)


   
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mschiff
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This is why the key range works well. It doesn't care about note on or off, just the range.


   
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praisetracks
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Great discussion and a great example of how something that seems very simple on the outside is very complicated when you try and implement it. I remember it has been a while where there was a keyboard or instrument that had some sort of logic that could track things like that but I forget. I guess another application would be similar to Divisimate.

I like the legato idea and in fact, that is what BBCSO sort of implemented with the latest update. It has an extended legato that I might try throwing into a layer and see what happens. 

 

Simeon Amburgey
https://www.youtube.com/praisetracks


   
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Robert.P
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Posted by: @getdunne

Should the filter immediately send a note-off for E before sending the note-on for G? This seems the only practical choice, but won't always sound good, e.g. if the downstream instrument has already triggered a loud and persistent E note).

The only other approaches I can think of would involve MIDI time-quantization, and require the player (or input MIDI sequence) to lead the beat. This quickly becomes very complex.

Here is an example taken from MusicLab Real Guitar - "detection time" settings (0-50ms). Let's try to set the detection delay to 25ms for every 2nd, 3rd, 4th note etc. The C note would be triggered immediately followed by G (with 25ms lag). If it won't work, we can use the slider to increase the delay even more.    


   
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praisetracks
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I m going to have to look into this further myself, as trying a layer with a legato (mono) patch from AREIA Lite (which I was reviewing) demonstrated that it is indeed a complicated puzzle to solve but one that could yield some really amazing results.

A similar topic I have been hearing is Polyphonic Legato and how certain libraries handle that as well as tracking live divisi which is also very fascinating.

Stay tuned, it is getting very interesting, indeed.

Simeon Amburgey
https://www.youtube.com/praisetracks


   
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Robert.P
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There is a very nice sounding legato in John’s latest video:

https://youtu.be/lUsFq7FYo-E?t=3982

Adding a note priority/filtering option should give us very similar results, and I wouldn’t worry too much about the potential lag introduced by filtering algorithm - the timing can be easily fixed by adjusting the playing technique


   
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(@getdunne)
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@robert-p

I'll think about it, but I'm not convinced that any kind of brute-force algorithm is going to be as good and as musical as careful playing and use of split points. What am I missing?


   
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Robert.P
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@getdunne

I agree that careful playing gives better results, but optional algorithmic legato can be helpful if we'd like to i.e. play a piano triad and single violin note with the right hand at the same time (while the left hand plays part of the BPM split patch or a bass line)  


   
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(@keystroke)
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@getdunne

I came across a specific mono mode in Surge XT (low note priority) which allows me to improvise with a piano sound and letting the bass (surge) only play the lowest note. It would be great if there was a posibility to mimic such a "mode" in unify in order to use other plugins not having a low note pritority mode. The really cool thing about Surge XT is that when the sustain pedal is pressed, the lowest note stays at the last played note...

I made a little video demonstrating this technique: Youtube... /watch?v=2Z_KBDS3Isc (cannot link directly to it)

EDIT by Shane: direct link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z_KBDS3Isc

All the best

Ruedi

 

This post was modified 2 years ago 3 times by keystroke

   
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(@getdunne)
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@keystroke

Thank you for the video. I understand now what you're proposing. I'll make a note to have a look at how this is done in Surge--fortunately, it's open-source, so I can study their algorithm. No promises on when I might be able to implement this, though.

In the meantime, someone might want to try implementing this using e.g. Lua Protoplug.


PS Very clever trick for working around wpForo's link restrictions! I edited your post to provide the complete link (which I can do, as an admin), but left your original text there as an example for others.


   
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Robert.P
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Posted by: @keystroke

(...) It would be great if there was a posibility to mimic such a "mode" in unify in order to use other plugins not having a low note pritority mode. (...)

Ruedi

 

PizMidi "MidiPolyphony" can do that, it has 3 options: Low, Mid and High note priority.


   
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