multi-output vst plugins

I can't speak for long-term plans, but you can use such plug-ins now inside ComboBox instances, as long as you're OK with producing a stereo output.

@getdunne cheers I was wondering more about splitting ie: kontakt outputs to separate unify channels.

Posted by: @topaz

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I was wondering more about splitting ie: kontakt outputs to separate unify channels.

You need to adapt to the fact that Unify remains stereo-only internally, i.e., each layer can have at most two inputs and two outputs (Left/Right). For Kontakt, there are basically two cases:

1. Kontakt is running a multi--two or more instruments routed to separate stereo output busses. Instead of using a multi inside one Kontakt instance, split it out into multiple Kontakt instances on separate Unify layers.
2. Kontakt instrument requires a non-stereo output bus, e.g. surround, or possibly a multi-channel arrangement for multiple mic positions. The only way to handle this is to duplicate the Unify layer as many times as necessary (each layer running a copy of the same multi-channel Kontakt program), and modify the routing inside each Kontakt instance to bring out a different channel (or channel pair) to outputs 1 and 2.

Method 1 will yield better CPU utilization than using a Kontakt multi, because Unify spreads layer processing across available CPU cores. Basically, Unify is a better "multi manager" than Kontakt and most other multi-layer instrument plug-ins.

Method 2 is sub-optimal for sure, but may be less so than you might expect. Although Kontakt is only single-threaded, its memory management is very good.

Consider also Method 3: run Kontakt outside of Unify, and use your DAW or live-host's own channel routing features.

Expanding Unify to be multi-channel internally is certainly possible, but would be a huge undertaking, and I doubt PlugInGuru could justify the effort for the limited number of users that would benefit from it.

Please share some details about how you'd like to use e.g. Kontakt with multi-channel routing in Unify, and specifically, what you'd like to do that you can't yet do in Unify 2.

@getdunne in this case it to run Maschine 3 inside unify. i could split maschine out to unify channels to be bounced. I totally understand why its not there but was just asking 😉

@topaz

Hi, you can achieve this using a 3rd party plugin "Blue Cat's Connector". I also tried "DDMF Send it", but there was some crackling noise, so I would stick with the "Connector" option:

1. Unify: Load Maschine into instr. layer 1

2. Maschine: insert "BC Connector" as a last plugin in the fx chains, set it to "Send Audio" and set the port number (i.e. 8001 = Maschine "Sound 1", 8002 = Maschine "Sound 2" etc.)

3. Unify: add instrument layers (it can be a default "Sine Wave Synth" or empty "ComboBox", you can also set a MIDI input to "None") and insert "BC Connector" as the first plugin in the fx chains, set it to "Receive Audio" and set the port numbers coresponding to "Maschine" sends.

Even though Unify is stereo-per-layer internally, multi-audio-output plugins like D16 Nepheton 2, D16 Drumazon 2 etc still make a lot of sense inside Unify. The main benefit isn’t multi-bus mixing (which Unify doesn’t aim to replace), but the ability to treat each sound as its own Unify layer with its own FX chain, modulators, macros and processing. This is exactly where Unify is strong.

If you split the plugin’s outputs into multiple audio layers, you can give the kick, snare, hats, claps, toms, etc. their own processing chains inside Unify. That keeps your DAW clean while still letting you do all the sound-design work inside one patch. Once you’ve shaped each layer the way you want, everything can still go out to the DAW on just one stereo output.

The advantage is that your whole drum instrument becomes a single Unify preset instead of a bunch of DAW tracks, routing pins and plugin chains scattered across a project. That makes it portable between different DAWs, different systems and even live setups. You get consistent results everywhere, and all your processing stays inside the .unify patch instead of being host-dependent.

So even with the stereo limitation per layer, using multi-output instruments in Unify is still very practical: it lets you handle all the individual sound design inside Unify, and then simply feed one stereo mix into the DAW. It’s a clean workflow and plays to Unify’s strengths.

All this sounds like really useful use cases - but apart from the processing code work it might also require changes to UI design, so possibly something to think about for Unify3. BC connector seems like a good workaround right now considering it's kind of a niche use-case that would only benefit a small percentage of users currently. 

Totally understood, thank you for the clarification.

I recently picked up Nepheton 2 and Drumazon 2, and while exploring some of their multi-out uses I ended up in this thread. I completely understand that, with Unify 2 still being young, there are naturally many areas with higher priority right now.

From my side this isn’t urgent at all, and BC Connector is indeed a perfectly workable solution for the moment.
I mainly wanted to outline the use-cases and the technical angle so it can sit somewhere on the long-term radar, maybe for Unify 3 as you mentioned.

Even a minimal implementation someday, simply exposing plugin output busses so they can be assigned to new layers or sub-busses, would already open a lot of creative possibilities without changing Unify’s core design. But again, no pressure, just sharing perspective, and absolutely fine that it’s niche.

Really appreciate the transparency and the thoughtful development direction. I loved Unify 1 already soo much and it's getting better and better in U2!

I was thinking if we can expose the output busses of plugins, maybe they could be listed in the internal audio input plugin (so you can add it in another layer) - that would be the quickest implementation UI wise, but the audio piping work would still be considerable.

And yes, so fresh after the release of Unify2 (exactly one month now) we do need to spend a bit of time working on some more urgent tasks first - for me top priority is stability and processing load issues (hence current work on logging systems and testing real-time processing loading at the function/thread level) as well as making sure we don't have any rendering issues.

Ah yes, that makes perfect sense. Listing the plugin output busses in the Internal Audio Input plugin would already be a very clean and consistent UI step, even if the actual engine-side audio piping is the part that requires the real work underneath.

I also completely understand that there are many other areas with higher priority right now, especially with Unify 2 still evolving. No rush at all, and absolutely fine if this is something for much later.

If you ever want to explore or prototype anything on Windows regarding multi-out behavior, feel free to send me a message. Always happy to help if it saves you time or gives some extra insight.

Thanks again for thinking this through so openly

Totally understand there are other priorities at the moment. I just want to +1 on this feature—particularly for orchestral libraries like Audiobro or Orchestral Tools that have a lot of split patches for individual players. Duplicating these to have processing control over individual mic positions gets pretty unwieldy.

Audiobro includes consolidated patches with autodivisi, but I would rather use Notemate. It's an awesome tool, but multi-out instrument layers would be a useful enhancement for making Notemate more viable with these kinds of libraries.

One thing to remember is that each layer in a Unify2 instance driven by notemate could then be a whole Unify2 instance, so you could split and separately process several instrument versions that way for each channel.

Otherwise for the top layer of course we have individual audio out capability on layers (16 selectable stereo outputs).

(Next update of Unify2 coming this weekend includes Note ordering within a time window to ensure consistent note ordering (with adjustable look ahead))

Posted by: @wavesequencer

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I was thinking if we can expose the output busses of plugins, maybe they could be listed in the internal audio input plugin (so you can add it in another layer)

Really like that idea.

I really like this idea too.

Please consider exposing the output busses of plugins, which are then listed in the internal audio input plugin in another layer/s. Each channel of the plugin (e.g. Kontakt multi) can then have it's own dedicated layer, so you can control audio effects/sends/volume/panning/etc. all controllable with Unify, rather than Kontakt itself. This would be amazing for many other use-cases as well - not just Kontakt, e.g. Rando, XO, Superior Drummer, UVIWorkstation, Sampletank 4, etc.

Nice idea for Unify3.