Notifications
Clear all

Multiple Outs


RainBro
(@rainbro)
Eminent Member
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 29
Topic starter  

I'd like to see multiple outs one day in order to refine the output of certain layers by (i.e.) FX with sidechain functionality or in general to have more DAW control when complex patches are at work.

While Unify is a perfect tool to stack sounds to form a unique(!) layered sound it is also a great tool for sketching ideas (see the BPM SPLIT patches) that'd profit from dismantling the individual parts in later production stages.


mj_prod liked
Quote
getdunne
(@getdunne)
Member Admin
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 2854
 

We hear you @RainBro! Multiple audio outputs is high on our to-do list, as is more flexible routing options (for sidechaining, etc.). The list is very long, though, and we have some pressing tech-support issues to tackle first, so patience is appreciated.

Keep this great feedback coming. We want to hear what's on your "must have" and "wish" lists!

 


ReplyQuote
WatchTheGuitar
(@watchtheguitar)
Active Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 7
 

As I've started to use Unify more recently this has become the number one thing that stops me using it for everything because while I love to get lost in the additive layering workflow it makes it impossible to post-process the individual layers after recording in Reaper etc.

It really takes me out of it if I have to load up separate unify instances to achieve this.

Is multichannel audio output still on the list for future development?


ReplyQuote
getdunne
(@getdunne)
Member Admin
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 2854
 
Posted by: @watchtheguitar

Is multichannel audio output still on the list for future development?

Yes, still on the list.

In the meantime, note you can render individual layers to audio, by soloing one layer at a time, then put those on multiple DAW tracks and process to your heart's content. Yes, it's extra work, but you don't need multiple Unify instances, and CPU usage will plummet as you won't be running all the synths.


ReplyQuote
nonchai
(@nonchai)
Active Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 11
 

@getdunne

Can I second this plea for multiple outputs - I think in particular its going to be essential for serious BBC SO users of your CoreStation product - because any pro composer is going to want to mix instruments seperately. 

But in addition can I also press you to add additional multiple MIDI inputs and outputs - in order when -  for example having a patch for a string section - such that the notes being produced internally via some MIDI file pattern etc - get output from the plugin and can be routed to separate tracks. 

This is in order that composers can work on all the actual MIDI note information that is being sent to the BBC SO plugins ( or Vienna ensemble pro for that matter ) and not just on the sparse keyboard input information. 

For example one might be playing a held-chord and UNIFY puts out arpeggios and motifs to five different BBC SO instruments ( using DIVISIMATE style principles one hopes )  and the held down chords get recorded into the DAW. But... once this is done one enters a second stage where one can actually edit the actual MIDI for each instrument. 

 

For this to work UNIFY+CORESTATION  would have two modes of operation - one where it responds as currently to keyboard input - on a single MIDI channel - MIDI channel 1  - just held chords or single note entry for example... but then the other mode would be where the plugin receives and responds to a different stream of MIDI data - for example on 5 different channels - 2 to 6 - containing separate MIDI data for each of the  5 sections in the orchestra. 

 

This would allow  UNIFY to be used in exploratory ideas mode - but then work within the DAW in fine MIDI detail - to make fine grained changes to MANY MIDI note that was initially generated by UNIFY - that now resides in a recorded MIDI track in the DAW.

 

So in our example here of a patch that in UNIFY just has 5 instances of BBC SO - there would be - in the DAW - SIX MIDI tracks set up - one for UNIFY and operating as things do now... but the other five midi tracks - for Violins 1, Violins 2, Violas, Cellos and basses. 

 

 


ReplyQuote
nonchai
(@nonchai)
Active Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 11
 

I've also sent you a PM - as I've worked in the past on a JUCE VST hosting idea similar ( but also different ) to the client-server stuff you discussed in the talk you gave at the ADC - on "networking for audio plugins". 

I sadly placed this project on back burner ( aka shelved it ) as my intended market seemed ideally suited to Vienna Ensemble Pro.  But my idea ( and JUCE code ) worked in quite a different way to how typical media/film composers work with huge templates and VEP on the back end - so recently have been wondering if its worth resurrecting my idea. 

 

I'd like to discuss this and possible future collaboration on JUCE etc via email and zoom/FaceTime etc  some time.

 

(I'm based in the UK so there'll be a time difference ()


mj_prod liked
ReplyQuote
getdunne
(@getdunne)
Member Admin
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 2854
 

@nonchai

Lots of interesting ideas here; thank you. I will get in touch directly to discuss.

Note very few DAWs support multiple MIDI outputs from plug-ins. Most only barely support one.


mj_prod liked
ReplyQuote
nonchai
(@nonchai)
Active Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 11
 

@getdunne Agreed.  Actually just sending all the midi for all MIDI CHANNELS to a single track in the DAW would be a start - and with Cubase for example it has a nifty "convert to lanes" where all the notes for a specific midi channel get put in seperate lanes. 

This  is currently being used by composers using OPUS ORCHESTRATOR and  Cubase so they can record the actual MIDI being produced for every orchestral instrument onto a separator track from the control track. Its then a simple move from there to use the "separate into lanes" MIDI feature in Cubase to allow the MIDI for each instrument part to be viewed and edited separately.

 


ReplyQuote
getdunne
(@getdunne)
Member Admin
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 2854
 
Posted by: @nonchai

...just sending all the midi for all MIDI CHANNELS to a single track in the DAW would be a start - and with Cubase for example it has a nifty "convert to lanes" where all the notes for a specific midi channel get put in separate lanes. 

Interesting idea, added to the to-do list (at the bottom of page 44).

This is an example of a useful feature which could conceivably be added to Unify, but in practice would probably be more work than it's worth, not just to design and implement, but more importantly to support for the indefinite future.

My hope is that some future version of Unify will add some kind of user programmability, so people can create such things themselves as add-ons, and with luck, a community of skilled programmers may emerge to handle this on an open-source basis.


ReplyQuote
nonchai
(@nonchai)
Active Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 11
 
Posted by: @getdunne
Posted by: @nonchai

...just sending all the midi for all MIDI CHANNELS to a single track in the DAW would be a start - and with Cubase for example it has a nifty "convert to lanes" where all the notes for a specific midi channel get put in separate lanes. 

Interesting idea, added to the to-do list (at the bottom of page 44).

This is an example of a useful feature which could conceivably be added to Unify, but in practice would probably be more work than it's worth, 

If by this you mean  adding the functionality above  concerning conversion to lanes into UNIFY - no I wasn't intending that. 

 

All I ( and lots of others I suspect who are using or interested in the BBC SO Discovery pack ) really need is to be able to 

 

a )  [ simplest to implement ? ]  just be able to export actual MIDI being played by any instrument inside UNIFY ( eg midi send to all instances of BBC SO plugin )  as a single midi file where every instrument has its  own midi channel ( as per the formal MIDI file specs) 

 

b ) ability  to route MIDI data ( for up to 16 MIDI channels ) out of the UNITY plugin in real-time to a MIDI track in the DAW. 

 

I'd be happy to help coding wise. 

 

this might be only a "nice to have" for users of the regular UNIFY synth type packs - but it seriously limits what's possible composer-wise with the DISCOVERY version. 

 

Hence why Opus Orchestrator has this. The opus engine just sends everything out on a single MIDI output. No more. Hence why there are videos being made  like this.: 

 

"EW Opus Orchestrator midi export to Cubase"

https://youtu.be/0rkrmU4b4rg  

and this: 

"EW Opus Orchestrator routing individual midi Channels to new instruments in Cubase ( better solution ) "

https://youtu.be/WWg0poqOmEg  

 

 


ReplyQuote
nonchai
(@nonchai)
Active Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 11
 

slightly off topic but related - I actually recently pondered selling my BBC SO Pro license in order to buy EW Opus Hollywood Orchestra / Orchestrator because it seemed so much like what I really need - but ...

 

... ALAS!  Spitfire forbids selling on one's Spitfire licenses - so unlike NI and Komplete etc....  I'm stuck with it 🙁

 

Still - BBC SO sounds superb - and- having evaluated OPUS for a few days now by means of the monthly subscription - its clear that EWs OPUS engine needs a lot of refinement. Lots of clicks etc- and takes up tons of CPU needlessly.  

 

All the more reason why I'd so love to see MIDI output in UNIFY !

🙂


Jason_ZA and getdunne liked
ReplyQuote
Tocan
(@tocan)
Trusted Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 73
 

i recognize this and this is illegal Special for European Laws by the way i did notify Spitfire this that they are risk  massive payments. They think maybe nothing happens but they did Change their Rules in silence before the Brexit. 

First its one reason i did move to VSL. And my husband did prepare to go with them in front of justice. It will cost them realy some millions. Google and Facebook did learn their Lessons.

My little YouTube Account acts as honeypot. Also against YouTube. There is a immersive support of Internet criminals by  YouTube. Fact is i or Wilfried did win against Artlist and we will win in Front of Europe against Youtube. I did send once John a File and He did Show this File. He got a strike but the sonamed Copyright owner was a Fake criminals company from Russia.

YouTube could not catch them so YouTube did pay me the bill. But now we got the Russians. We got them in Amsterdam with help of the Netherlands authorities. Future European Copyright will have as main instance no more the Composer or composition. It starts with Sounds. If you place Music you have to be able that you own the Sounds legal.


ReplyQuote
Tocan
(@tocan)
Trusted Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 73
 

I also support the Idea of Multiple Out. But Not only as Midi Out should be given as Wave too. Its Essential for any future music production in Studio. Today WE did rescue an original Fairlight Hardware in eBay for 99.- Euros original price was more than 200000.-€ The reason Wilfried and me was not realy present Yesterday. In Stream.

We grow now from Hardware Side in direction of 130 Channels. In fact in June is a official certification course and i can reserve you 2 places. Course is 5 hours daily and 5 days. I see at least a real chance to get Unify real licensed by Dolby and Blackmagic. Script language is the same as you use for Unify.

In fact. At the moment i build with Unify Patches a main structure just to build a complete template with 120 Layers as regular.

The Layers get an object definition than in the room.

For any cinematic Project the orchestrator will beat you because the Unify way produce an immense cost and Budget boost to sort the things out.


ReplyQuote
Tocan
(@tocan)
Trusted Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 73
 

@getdunne what you think we have done with the Spitfire Labs Project?

The Script Plugin and conversion engine is implemented inside DaVinci Resolve. Same language aS you use inside Unify.

I will post Marry the Trainer for this course in Front a Unify Made composition.

 

"Fairlight Audio Post with DaVInci Resolve 17 Certification class".

Date Time: Jul 12, 2021 12:00 PM Pacific Time (US and Canada)

Every day, until Jul 16, 2021, 5 occurrence(s)
Jul 12, 2021 12:00 PM
Jul 13, 2021 12:00 PM
Jul 14, 2021 12:00 PM
Jul 15, 2021 12:00 PM
Jul 16, 2021 12:00 PM
Description: This five day, four-hour per day certification class covers the following:
- Building a soundtrack
- Recording voice-over and ADR
- Working with audio track layers
- Preparing multichannel clips for dialogue editing
- Editing dialogue tracks
- Repairing and replacing unwanted sounds
- Advanced dialogue repair
- Enhancing the soundtrack with sound design
- Creating sound effects
- Pre-mixing levels and panning tracks
- Sweetening the mix
- Simplifying the mix with buses
- Mixing with automation
- Finishing and delivering tracks
- The power of Dolby Atmos
 

ReplyQuote
Tocan
(@tocan)
Trusted Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 73
 

@getdunne for the Moment its the highest rating for working with Midi as Output and also WAV in their different formats.

Special Compliance to the broadcast format is essential for any professional use of Unify in production.

No Radio Station and no TV Station will play any music If you do not provide yours music compliant.

This request is for right done since more than a year.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_Wave_Format


ReplyQuote
getdunne
(@getdunne)
Member Admin
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 2854
 

@tocan

I don't know what you did with Spitfire LABS, so I can't comment on it.

If you want WAV output, just use Unify in any DAW, and export WAVs from the DAW.

The BWF standard is a set of extensions to the basic WAV format. It's supported by AVID ProTools, and there is a free/open-source program called BWF MetaEdit available on multiple platforms, which can add and edit the BWF-specific metadata.


ReplyQuote
Tocan
(@tocan)
Trusted Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 73
 

This is done with direct in Davinci Resolve and i did use ReMidi and Scaler. Unify Just acting as VST Host.

In case for direct streaming from Broadcasting live Stream and Jam for Dolby Atmos its necessary that for example Piano is the bed and the Rest of Sounds are Objects. This objects have to be Wave files.

Its Not such AS a difficult Task to include to Unify.

Read description below the Bandcamp File. Their programmers will add soon also Dolby Atmos.

Here in this example are just 2 wistlers.

 

https://davincigirl.bandcamp.com/track/romanian-dance-hora-staccato


ReplyQuote
Share: