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POLYBOX Macro

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ChrisG UK
(@chrisg-uk)
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Hi Shane,

I was playing with Polybox and I tried to use a macro to enable Random (or not) but it isn't available in the macro variables.

Do you think this would be a good idea?  I am using it to play 4 different synths but it would be good to control the randomness on the macro whilst playing and decide if it should go back to sequential or not.

Cheers,

Chris

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 12 pro, Native Instruments, Equator 2, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro 2019, Big Sur 11.7, iPad Pro


   
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(@getdunne)
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I'll put it on the to-do list.


   
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ChrisG UK
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Great.  Thanks.

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 12 pro, Native Instruments, Equator 2, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro 2019, Big Sur 11.7, iPad Pro


   
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ChrisG UK
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Hi Shane,

Since you updated the Polybox with the poly mode it is really useful.  Just wondered to add to my previous request, could you add macro ability on the Pool size?

This would enable you to select 3/4 or 4/4 timing via 3,6,12 layers or 4,8,16 layers along with the random toggle of course which makes it great for have a set layer sequence or not.

Many thanks,

Chris 😉 

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 12 pro, Native Instruments, Equator 2, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro 2019, Big Sur 11.7, iPad Pro


   
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(@getdunne)
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I don't understand; can you explain in a bit more detail why you want to control pool size dynamically?


   
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ChrisG UK
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It is about musical timing.  If you select pool size 3 then you get a waltz rhythm (3/4) but if you select 4 then you get a (4/4) so it is useful to have one patch that can play randomly on the layers and also be able to switch from 3/4 to 4/4 in the same piece of music without changing instrument.

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 12 pro, Native Instruments, Equator 2, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro 2019, Big Sur 11.7, iPad Pro


   
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(@getdunne)
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Interesting. I'll look into this, thanks.

 


   
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ChrisG UK
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It also allows you to select the amount of layers in a pool of sounds if they are in randomisation of selection.  So you could have a 2 layer pool or more depending what you want to put into them in your Wave Table. Make them more repetitive or more varied. 

Thanks for listening.

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 12 pro, Native Instruments, Equator 2, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro 2019, Big Sur 11.7, iPad Pro


   
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(@getdunne)
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@chrisg-uk

I thought a lot about your idea of layer-sequencing where you can control the timing dynamically. Modulating the PolyBox pool-size seemed like a bit of a sledgehammer, and I thought there might already be a more subtle and capable way to do it, so I did some experiments.

It's possible to craft MIDI sequences where each note is on its own MIDI channel. MIDIBox can play out such sequences directly to a bank of INST layers set on different MIDI channels--no PolyBox required--so the layer order is then baked into the sequence. Because MIDIBox can handle multi-track MIDI files, and the track number can already be connected to a knob for real-time switching, you have everything you need for dynamically switching between 4/4 and 3/4, and MUCH more, with any timing you care to build into your MIDI sequences.

I have made a very small .guru file which will add a patch called DEMO - Multi Channel MIDI Sequences to your User Library/Patches folder, and put its required MIDI file into User Library/MIDI Files. The MIDI file has four tracks, illustrating 4/4, 3/4, and two kinds of triplets. You can use Macro Knob 5 to switch among them. Because all the notes in the MIDI file are C3 (middle C), and the MIDIBox is set to Poly Transpose mode, you can play chords.

Download the .guru file from here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rn1jzdwuetf99l2/Multi%20Channel%20MIDI%20Sequencing.guru?dl=0

Creating MIDI files like this, with per-note control over MIDI channel numbers, will probably not be easy with most DAWs. I cheated and wrote a Python program to do it, using the MIDIUtil library. The Python3 code is attached, for anyone who may be interested.


   
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ChrisG UK
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Hi Shane,

I downloaded you file and played with it.  This way seems to create hanging notes if you go too fast on the first layer.  I replaced your basic Sine Wave Synth with a Guru Sampler instrument (x3) and it did the same there.  Something seems to be hanging notes with MIDIBox.  Run your finger along the keyboard and you will see it.

I don't have this trouble when I use my Polybox version.  Also your method only allows you to have the relative Ch1,2,3 order position or whichever number order you give to them for playing.  My way allows you to set randomisation on the selection of different channels using PolyBox 'Random' checkbox.  So each layer could be a small variant on the next like a 'round robin' but like I said initially you can always play in the same sequence or random if the PolyBox Random was dynamically changeable.

Many thanks for your suggestion and hard work as usual.

Cheers,

Chris

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 12 pro, Native Instruments, Equator 2, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro 2019, Big Sur 11.7, iPad Pro


   
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(@getdunne)
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@chrisg-uk

I can't reproduce the hanging notes. Are you using a Casio Privia keyboard, by any chance? If so, please add an instance of MIDI Filter before the MIDIBox, and check the "Multiple Note-On Events" box (see updated manual page https://pluginguru.net/unify/manual/doku.php?id=midi-filter#multiple_note-on_events).

I've added your suggestions for PolyBox changes to the to-do list and will keep these in mind over the next while. You are of course correct about absolute vs. relative layer numbers and randomization.


   
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ChrisG UK
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I have tried the MIDI filter and ticked the Multiple Note-On Events and it still does it.

I'm using a ROLI LUMI Keyboard connected via USB-C on my Catalina MAC 10.15.7 and it also occurs coming from my NI KOMPLETE S61 controller.

I also de-selected the MIDI live input on Unify to one input to check and it still does it.

I placed the MIDI monitor on the 1st Instrument layer where the sticky notes were occurring.

Here's the event log.  Firstly I went up an octave individually and then slid back down on my LUMI:

4051.88 ms: Ch01 Note on C2 nn 48 vel 100
4251.86 ms: Ch01 Note off C2
5619.23 ms: Ch01 Note on D2 nn 50 vel 100
5793.38 ms: Ch01 Note off D2
7233.02 ms: Ch01 Note on E2 nn 52 vel 100
7432.99 ms: Ch01 Note off E2
8103.76 ms: Ch01 Note on F2 nn 53 vel 100
8303.74 ms: Ch01 Note off F2
8684.26 ms: Ch01 Note on G2 nn 55 vel 100
8846.80 ms: Ch01 Note off G2
9218.32 ms: Ch01 Note on A2 nn 57 vel 100
9415.69 ms: Ch01 Note off A2
9729.16 ms: Ch01 Note on B2 nn 59 vel 100
9926.53 ms: Ch01 Note off B2
10390.93 ms: Ch01 Note on C3 nn 60 vel 100
10576.69 ms: Ch01 Note off C3
12376.24 ms: Ch01 Note on C3 nn 60 vel 100
12445.90 ms: Ch01 Note on B2 nn 59 vel 100
12492.34 ms: Ch01 Note on A2 nn 57 vel 100
12492.34 ms: Ch01 Note off C3
12538.78 ms: Ch01 Note on G2 nn 55 vel 100
12538.78 ms: Ch01 Note off B2
12564.60 ms: Ch01 Note off A2
12564.60 ms: Ch01 Note off G2
12643.27 ms: Ch01 Note on D2 nn 50 vel 100
12712.93 ms: Ch01 Note on C2 nn 48 vel 100

 

On my S61:

1764.72 ms: Ch01 Note off C3
3308.84 ms: Ch01 Note on C3 nn 60 vel 100
3459.77 ms: Ch01 Note off C3
3691.97 ms: Ch01 Note on D3 nn 62 vel 100
3808.07 ms: Ch01 Note off D3
3935.78 ms: Ch01 Note on E3 nn 64 vel 100
4075.10 ms: Ch01 Note off E3
4191.20 ms: Ch01 Note on F3 nn 65 vel 100
4330.52 ms: Ch01 Note off F3
4435.01 ms: Ch01 Note on G3 nn 67 vel 100
4539.50 ms: Ch01 Note off G3
4678.82 ms: Ch01 Note on A3 nn 69 vel 100
4783.31 ms: Ch01 Note off A3
4945.85 ms: Ch01 Note on B3 nn 71 vel 100
5061.95 ms: Ch01 Note off B3
5468.30 ms: Ch01 Note on C4 nn 72 vel 100
5596.01 ms: Ch01 Note off C4
6072.02 ms: Ch01 Note on C4 nn 72 vel 100
6153.29 ms: Ch01 Note on B3 nn 71 vel 100
6176.51 ms: Ch01 Note off C4
6199.73 ms: Ch01 Note on A3 nn 69 vel 100
6222.95 ms: Ch01 Note off B3
6246.17 ms: Ch01 Note on G3 nn 67 vel 100
6257.78 ms: Ch01 Note off A3
6272.00 ms: Ch01 Note off G3
6350.66 ms: Ch01 Note on D3 nn 62 vel 100
6408.71 ms: Ch01 Note on C3 nn 60 vel 100

Thanks,

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 12 pro, Native Instruments, Equator 2, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro 2019, Big Sur 11.7, iPad Pro


   
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ChrisG UK
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Small Experiment.  I put one MIDI Moniitor before MIDI box and the other after the MIDI Box.

Before:

13887.41 ms: Ch01 Note on C3 nn 60 vel 100
13921.36 ms: Ch01 Note on D3 nn 62 vel 124
13946.35 ms: Ch01 Note off C3
14001.93 ms: Ch01 Note on E3 nn 64 vel 124
14015.87 ms: Ch01 Note off D3
14056.28 ms: Ch01 Note on F3 nn 65 vel 126
14072.36 ms: Ch01 Note off E3
14106.87 ms: Ch01 Note on G3 nn 67 vel 126
14123.33 ms: Ch01 Note off F3
14152.97 ms: Ch01 Note on A3 nn 69 vel 127
14171.84 ms: Ch01 Note off G3
14203.06 ms: Ch01 Note on B3 nn 71 vel 127
14219.84 ms: Ch01 Note off A3
14264.85 ms: Ch01 Note on C4 nn 72 vel 125
14290.36 ms: Ch01 Note off B3
14442.86 ms: Ch01 Note off C4

 

After

9009.34 ms: Ch01 Note on C3 nn 60 vel 100
9044.17 ms: Ch01 Note on D3 nn 62 vel 100
9067.39 ms: Ch01 Note off C3
9125.44 ms: Ch01 Note on E3 nn 64 vel 100
9137.05 ms: Ch01 Note off D3
9171.88 ms: Ch01 Note on F3 nn 65 vel 100
9195.10 ms: Ch01 Note off E3
9209.32 ms: Ch01 Note off F3
9259.41 ms: Ch02 Note on G3 nn 67 vel 100
9276.37 ms: Ch01 Note on A3 nn 69 vel 100
9287.98 ms: Ch02 Note off G3
9322.81 ms: Ch01 Note on B3 nn 71 vel 100
9334.42 ms: Ch02 Note off A3
9380.86 ms: Ch01 Note on C4 nn 72 vel 100
9404.08 ms: Ch02 Note off B3
9459.37 ms: Ch02 Note off C4
9509.09 ms: Ch03 Note on C4 nn 72 vel 100
9566.62 ms: Ch03 Note off C4

 

Hope this helps.

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 12 pro, Native Instruments, Equator 2, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro 2019, Big Sur 11.7, iPad Pro


   
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(@getdunne)
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@chrisg-uk

Thanks for the detailed report. It may take a while but I'll try to reproduce the issue based on this MIDI data.

I'm using a NI Komplete Kontrol M32 keyboard, and I can't reproduce this, no matter how quickly or slowly I play a glissando.

One question: By any chance, have you shortened the playback length to less than 3 bars? Some of the triplet patterns will yield stuck notes in this case, because there are notes which are tied across the boundary between bars 2 and 3.


   
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ChrisG UK
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Posts: 127
Topic starter  

@getdunne. Thanks.  Just to note I can see in the post monitor that the channel changes and it doesn't send a CH01 off but a CH02 off for 'A3' so hence a hanging note I guess as you can see in the log below.  There were no 'note offs' at the end.

 

BTW here is the Inst1 Layer info of the same events:

12805.80 ms: Ch01 Note on C3 nn 60 vel 100

12840.63 ms: Ch01 Note on D3 nn 62 vel 100
12863.85 ms: Ch01 Note off C3
12921.90 ms: Ch01 Note on E3 nn 64 vel 100
12933.51 ms: Ch01 Note off D3
12968.34 ms: Ch01 Note on F3 nn 65 vel 100
12991.56 ms: Ch01 Note off E3
13005.78 ms: Ch01 Note off F3
13072.83 ms: Ch01 Note on A3 nn 69 vel 100
13119.27 ms: Ch01 Note on B3 nn 71 vel 100
13177.32 ms: Ch01 Note on C4 nn 72 vel 100

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 12 pro, Native Instruments, Equator 2, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro 2019, Big Sur 11.7, iPad Pro


   
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ChrisG UK
(@chrisg-uk)
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Posts: 127
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More playing: 🤣 

I'm sorry I didn't answer your question earlier.  Yes I tried 4/4 and 3/4 using 3 Bars and 1 Bar and it didn't change anything.

If you press one or more notes and hold them all is fine.  It's when you start pressing and holding different keys as a waltz rhythm where you hold the bass on one and then add 2 high notes on 2 and another note on three.  Especially when you start to move quickly with your fingers and you may not be exactly on the bar you should be with your note changes.

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 12 pro, Native Instruments, Equator 2, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro 2019, Big Sur 11.7, iPad Pro


   
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