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DiscoverStation Library Conversion to Kontakt 6 Symphony Essentials


ChrisG UK
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I have started to create this library for Unify.

Sounding good so far!

To use this version of the library you will need Native Instruments Komplete Ultimate or higher version 11+.

Chris

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
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Tocan
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Hi somewhere something to listen? Where is the difference?

You have an example why to do it?


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ChrisG UK
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@tocan hi Daniela,  I already have the Ultimate NI Komplete and so I started doing it to see how it sounds and boy it was like taking cotton wool out from your ears!  A top end orchestral collection has far more detail, round robins.

It is not an easy job converting it though. Going to take a couple of weeks probably but at some point I could play a quick comparison mp3 of one of the bigger patches. 

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 11 pro, Native Instruments, Equator, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro, Catalina 10.15.7, iPad Pro


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Tocan
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I was searching around Christmas for Kontakt because of the plan to buy mega guitars from John. And there was a absolute lucky punch in ebay. Because the guy did have typos. And I was the only...

In fact for me was the discovery from John more important. I am absolute beginner. And the teaching lessons saturdays are difficult. I am total happy he put different rhythms in now. Not only tech or hip hop. As so I was happy for the first 3/4 from you.

The Native instruments is good or not? I plan for the moment next black fryday the core of spitfire.

And if with time the knowledge for integration of muses core midi becomes less difficult will be superb.

 


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getdunne
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@tocan

That eBay ad is for an UPGRADE pack. If you don't already own NI Komplete Ultimate, version 8 up to 12, don't buy this!

Native Instruments' stuff is very good, but expensive. Their Komplete bundle is the best value. Komplete Ultimate and Collector's Edition are only for professional music producers; there is more there than you will ever use. Buying instruments (like Kontakt) individually is not good value.


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Tocan
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It was from a covid-19 case sorry to say. It comes with ownership transfer.

In Germany in the area I live was a big tradition in the time after world war 2 to go to weekend dance coffee. And those musicians very often have private home studios. They solder their Farfisa and Wersi organs. Short time ago a Farfisa Midi was sold for 1.-€ including the Midi Bass pedal and Midi Accordeon.

My intention was to say OK a 1TB Harddisk cost me more and I get a cheap Harddisk with a nice label. For surprise was the registration code in the box and a transfer could be arranged. The relatives did not know what they sell.

I understand it's Kontakt somehow a standard but in general there is no reason to promote the Kontakt player. For example Ethera Gold will be better if there is another solution.

Marketing of Native Instruments is strange.


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ChrisG UK
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@tocan

I agree with Shane. I have the collectors edition but I had originally bought the ultimate edition many years ago and have always upgraded. 

it is an amazing suite of instruments. Personally I recommend the pack as it has so much variety of instruments. Synths, drums, orchestral but it is pricey but when you look at what you get, stable, great sounding, reliable VSts. It’s a no brainier for me and I’m not a professional musician but I like to produce music. 

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 11 pro, Native Instruments, Equator, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro, Catalina 10.15.7, iPad Pro


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ChrisG UK
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Hi Guys,

I finally getting there but boy is it hard work!  I've been doing every night at this and I am 130 of 185 the way through!!! But I have a small example here of the difference between the libraries.

It uses 3.87G of sample in Kontakt for your info!  First plays the Discover Station version and then the Komplete Symphony Essentials version.

Cheers,

Chris

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 11 pro, Native Instruments, Equator, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro, Catalina 10.15.7, iPad Pro


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ChrisG UK
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2nd Example same again but using Flight Of The Dreamer

This preset uses 4.84G of Kontakt samples

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 11 pro, Native Instruments, Equator, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro, Catalina 10.15.7, iPad Pro


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ChrisG UK
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3rd Example using Running Free using 2.24G of samples

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 11 pro, Native Instruments, Equator, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro, Catalina 10.15.7, iPad Pro


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ChrisG UK
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fourth example using sounds like Williams.  Memory 3.34G samples

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 11 pro, Native Instruments, Equator, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro, Catalina 10.15.7, iPad Pro


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JeremyH
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Thanks @chrisg-uk

Seems like a lot of work involved in this so well done and thank you! I picked up Komplete 13 Ultimate Edition in September (got an amazing deal) but haven't used the Symphony Essentials much as yet.

In your comparison mp3s you can certainly hear the difference between the BBC and Komplete versions even though they are both "lite" versions of larger libraries. Symphony Essentials seems much brighter and more present. I also noticed that the Essentials libraries seem to have a reasonable  number of round robins for articulations where it shows (4 for Spicato and 2 for Pizzicato) compared to BBC Discovery and you can even choose continuous or random selection of the round robin. 

Some details are here for the String Essentials https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/cinematic/symphony-series-string-ensemble/  

 

This post was modified 3 months ago 2 times by JeremyH

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ChrisG UK
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@zinct Well I finally finished them tonight.  I will be giving them to John and Shane to see how they feel before we let it out formally.

I must admit I have lots of libraries and the top end one just takes soooo much space.  I decided to stick with the Essentials, as you say they have enough variety and I can't imagine the pressure of the full Symphony Library on memory and processing!

I have put some extra singles in the 'INST' library like saxophones and other articulations so all good!

Maybe now I will get chance to play them properly, they have been analysed to death during conversion. Almost need a break lol.

Cheers,

Chris

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 11 pro, Native Instruments, Equator, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro, Catalina 10.15.7, iPad Pro


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Holmwoody
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@chrisg-uk @ShaneDunne.  Hi Chris or Shane, I am trying to convert the DiscoverStation library to The Orchestra Complete 2 instruments to see what difference it makes (I don't have the Discover Core library). I have no problem in changing the instruments, say Violin1 DS to violin1 TOC2 etc etc, for instances where there is no combobox (e.g. STR - Full Strings Long). If I change the instruments in a layer with a combobox present (e.g. BPM ELE - Strings Element 1-4), I get no sound. Do I have to change something in the combobox????


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ChrisG UK
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@holmwoody Hi, Sorry for the late reply.  I have been working on the K6SE version again.

From my experience I would check the following :

Is TOC2 set to receive omni (as I noticed when set to only one, when MIDIBox is involved, not all the parts play)

Is the key range similar to the CoreStation?  Some of K6 ones were slightly different but not very common.

When replacing the instruments in the Combobox, make sure the MIDI (Red) is connected through everything and finally to your TOC2, and ensure the output (Green) from the audio is connected from the TOC2 to the Audi Output Block.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Chris

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 11 pro, Native Instruments, Equator, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro, Catalina 10.15.7, iPad Pro


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getdunne
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@holmwoody

@chrisg-uk is your best bet for answers here. This is out of my area.


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ChrisG UK
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@holmwoody

Just had another thought.  Inside some of the ComboBoxes there are MIDI filters which also limit ranges from the incoming MIDI data to be sent to various octaves etc.  Check these out.  Post a pic of the ComboBox maybe for us to see if there is anything obvious.

Also watch out for articulation switching!! This can totally throw off what you are trying to achieve.

Chris

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 11 pro, Native Instruments, Equator, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro, Catalina 10.15.7, iPad Pro


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Holmwoody
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Thank you Chris and Shane for your responses. I will try all the suggestions this morning and let you know what happens.

Nigel Baillie aka Holmwoody

 


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Holmwoody
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@chrisg-uk  @ShaneDunne .............. all sorted, thank you. I changed the kontakt midi channel to 'omni' for each layer (from ch.1). All sounds and midi movements now work.

I used the DiscoverStation preset BPM ELE  Strings Elements 1-4 as the trial. I changed all the Discover instruments to their TOC2 equivalents.

Then I changed the kontakt midi channel to 'omni' for each layer as you suggested.

And Voila ( as we say in Normandy!). It now works perfectly. All I now have to do is change all the presets one at a time!

I thank you and take my hat off to you Chris. I have unified a few libraries for John Lehmkuhl, but that was pre-ComboBox and DiscoverStation. What you are doing takes a lot more time per patch. Respect!

Many thanks, Nigel - AKA Holmwoody


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Holmwoody
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@getdunne    Thanks Shane, all now sorted, as per my reply to Chris. Many thanks anyway. Nigel Baillie AKA Holmwoody


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ChrisG UK
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@holmwoody thanks Nigel. Glad i helped you get them going. It is quite a journey to translate this library and makes you realise  the hard work Skippy does with them. 

it has certainly taught me things about Kontakt too and to find their small bugs in the SE library. Lol but I’m almost there now. A dozen patches to go (for the second time) but now they are leaner on memory and sound great. 

good luck with your conversion. If you need advice just message me. I will help where I can. 

chris

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 11 pro, Native Instruments, Equator, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro, Catalina 10.15.7, iPad Pro


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raydricker
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@chrisg-uk

Hi,

 

I downloaded the SE Kontakt 6 patches this morning and I noticed that on some of the patches that the Kontakt Standard Library samples are needed...is this so? I sort of didn't feel the need to install this when I got V12 Ultimate as I didn't want to waste the disc space...I suppose if I want to use this I will need to install it?

 

Thanks!!

 

Raymond


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ChrisG UK
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@raydricker Hi Raymond,  I'm afraid so unless you replace them with another instrument.  I know it's a large library but not too bad.  It's needed for harps, some percussion, piccolo. It's worth it though I promise. A great sounding library and I cut it down to the minimum by removing unwanted articulations so it's as lean as possible.  BPM Orch instruments are generally the biggest as they have put 23 patches inside but this equates to around 1.9G in memory. 

Sounds way better than the basic Discovery IMO.

Hope you have fun!

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 11 pro, Native Instruments, Equator, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro, Catalina 10.15.7, iPad Pro


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JeremyH
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@chrisg-uk 

I just downloaded the K6 SE version and it sounds great! I agree that many of the patches sound better than the BBC Discovery version (the ones that I have listened to so far). I have also yet to experiment with layering both versions together which should really fill out the sound!

Thanks again for all your efforts and a great conversion. 👍 


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ChrisG UK
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@zinct Thanks Jeremy. So glad I converted it as just in terms of the basic musical arrangements it makes orchestral parts sound wonderful. My favourite is the brass in the SE library. Crisp and bright. 
enjoy!

chris 

Chris G
Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 11 pro, Native Instruments, Equator, Cypher2, Strobe2
OS: MacBook Pro, Catalina 10.15.7, iPad Pro


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topaz
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Has anyone managed to get this happening in the full symphony library ? ?

 

 


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