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SSquared
(@ssquared)
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Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 86
April 12, 2020 9:13 pm  

Hi.  Been wanting to sample one of my favorite sounds off the Korg 01w/fd for several years now.  Yesterday, I cleaned up a room and set up the Korg.  I recorded a few notes from the patch "Soft Pad".

I followed this link for importing samples into Unify: https://pluginguru.net/unify/manual/doku.php?id=sampler-import

To make things easy, I chose the single sample example as an initial first try.  I chose Audacity to figure out the loop start/end points.  I tried a few locations but still have a small click.  I placed everything in a directory and loaded it up in Guru Sampler.  I had an immediate smile.  It sounded great, even with just one sample.  Sounded like 'Soft Pad'.  The loop has a soft click and tried using some reverb to make it less noticeable.  Now I have this patch available in my live set.  Super happy Unify got me to finally make the effort.  I'm going to try and use more samples for this and find clean loop points.  As a first try, I'm super pleased.

Any suggestions on other software to use to figure out loop points?  I have Kontakt and Ableton Live's Sampler.  I'm more familiar with Audacity, so chose that.

Ableton Live 10, Omnisphere, Native Instruments, Diva, SynthMaster, Alchemy 1.55, Addictive Keys, Unify


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Tyler
(@tyler)
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Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 50
April 13, 2020 3:38 pm  

It sounds like you just need a sample slicer. Try the free VST called Momentum. Depending on your samples it might even figure out all the slice points automatically.

https://www.bigfishaudio.com/momentum.html


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ChrisG UK
(@chrisg-uk)
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Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 64
April 13, 2020 7:22 pm  
Posted by: @tyler

It sounds like you just need a sample slicer. Try the free VST called Momentum. Depending on your samples it might even figure out all the slice points automatically.

https://www.bigfishaudio.com/momentum.html

Thanks Tyler.  I downloaded this VST and it really is great. A brilliant way to use your folder full of computer magazine samples and fit them in tempo and tune wise into your music using Unify!!

thanks for the heads up. 

Chris

Chris G

Hardware: ROLI Seaboard, ROLI Lightpad, LinnStrument, Native Instruments S61, CC121
Software: Cubase 10.5 pro, Native Instruments, Equator, Cypher2, Strobe2, Union, Ascension
OS: MacBook Pro, Catalina, iPad


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SSquared
(@ssquared)
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Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 86
April 14, 2020 6:05 am  

Thanks for the link Tyler.  That looks like a really nice app.  I watched one of their videos and read up about the application.  I had not heard of it before.  What I'm doing is a bit different.  I am taking a single note from my synth and needing to find a clean loop point.  I can then import the WAV file and seamlessly sustain the sound in Guru Sampler.  I need to get down to the sampled data level as I need to report those specific sample loop start/end numbers to the Guru Sampler.  If Momentum can help me find clean sustain points, that will be great, but it appears more geared towards slicing.  For slicing and multi-effects it sure does look interesting.  Thanks again.

It has been super fun using the Guru Sampler with the wonderful built-in sample library and now I'm trying to bring in my own.

Ableton Live 10, Omnisphere, Native Instruments, Diva, SynthMaster, Alchemy 1.55, Addictive Keys, Unify


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Tyler
(@tyler)
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Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 50
April 14, 2020 9:12 pm  

@ssquared Yep I get what you're doing. I'm working on the same thing, trying to work with samples in Unify.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're running into a "phase offset" issue. There are a bunch of ways to deal with this, but the option that works best will depend somewhat on your specific sample. Look at the start and end of the sample in a waveform editor like Audacity. If you can (based on the sample length), find a cut point that is at the zero crossing. Audacity has something like this built in as you can read about on this page.

https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/dc_offset.html

Another option would be to deal with it during playback by increasing the attack and decay until the click dissipates.

Finally if you need to keep the sample at the same length, you can use a slicer like Momentum to potentially stretch the sample to a point where the phase is at zero, chop it off and then pitch shift back to the original sound. Your mileage may vary 😉


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SSquared
(@ssquared)
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Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 86
April 14, 2020 10:51 pm  

Thanks a ton.  Yeah, I'm using Audacity's zero crossing but I will keep trying.  I don't know specifically about a "phase offset".  Is that due to L/R channel?  The sustain has a slight click at the loop point.  My knowledge on this is extremely limited and am eager to learn.  The last time I did any real sampling was with an Ensoniq Mirage which had only two LED numbers to accomplish your work.  I have not really kept up with sampling since then, but now that I have some older equipment with sounds I like, I want to start sampling them so I can re-introduce them into my live sets without having to carry any extra equipment.

Maybe I would be better off using Kontakt, but I really enjoy Unify and felt I could easily follow the directions to import into Unify.  I've been wanting to do this for years, and I guess I now found the time to start.  🙂  Being only very partially knowledgeable on this made it always seem overwhelming to me.

Ableton Live 10, Omnisphere, Native Instruments, Diva, SynthMaster, Alchemy 1.55, Addictive Keys, Unify


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Tyler
(@tyler)
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Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 50
April 15, 2020 7:00 pm  

@SSquared It could be a problem with the zero crossing or possibly the entire sample is out of phase (shifted from the center line).

If you want, upload the sample and .sfz file. Then I could take a look in case there's a simple explanation. Or someone else might notice the problem. Like a lot of people, I'm not very busy these days, DOH.


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SSquared
(@ssquared)
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 86
April 18, 2020 4:44 pm  

Thanks @Tyler.  My first try last week I was just seeing if I could sample, loop and import into Unify.  That was easy enough and let me know it's a fairly simple process.  I'm hoping to re-sample the notes today as I recorded them too quietly last week.  I increased the Gain using Audacity, but I'd rather get a better level on the original recording.

I will try and do this again today.  I usually get to music after the Saturday Livestream.  I'll work through it again.  Depending on how it goes I can PM you files for some suggestions.  Thanks for the offer.

Ableton Live 10, Omnisphere, Native Instruments, Diva, SynthMaster, Alchemy 1.55, Addictive Keys, Unify


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SSquared
(@ssquared)
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 86
April 19, 2020 6:30 am  

Hi.  I spent some more time tonight on this.  I made new recordings.  I also recorded more patches to try and loop.  Since I use Ableton Live I decided to finally use Sampler (one of the main reasons I upgraded from Standard).  With all my tries, I still had minor clicks I could not remove.

I eventually normalized the recordings and could really see differences in the left/right channels.  I'm not sure I can ever get both channels to loop smoothly.  I then used the crossfade feature in Sampler and all my problems went away.  So, without a crossfade option in the Unify sfz file, I will likely stick with Sampler for now.  Looking forward to the Unify Sampler.

Ableton Live 10, Omnisphere, Native Instruments, Diva, SynthMaster, Alchemy 1.55, Addictive Keys, Unify


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getdunne
(@getdunne)
Member Admin
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 1558
April 19, 2020 2:34 pm  

Getting samples to loop correctly and well is the hardest part of sample development, and there are almost no available software tools (that are actually good).

There won't be a "Pro" version of Guru Sampler until we have the necessary features, which are up to John's standards.

 


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Tyler
(@tyler)
Member
Joined: 8 months ago
Posts: 50
April 19, 2020 7:31 pm  

1) If you're specifically trying to use a sample player plugin inside Unify rather than using your DAW, something like this would be worth trying. There's a free trial version and it should really do everything you need. 

https://www.tx16wx.com/product/tx16wx-v3/

2) Thought I'd post this in case you hadn't seen it...

https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/creating_a_crossfade.html

3) A final tip that requires more patience and varies based on the exact sample, is that a portion of the audio at the end can be blended into the beginning to further smooth the loop transition. For less dynamic samples this can be effective, but others will prove to be impossible/worse.


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SSquared
(@ssquared)
Member
Joined: 1 year ago
Posts: 86
April 19, 2020 9:36 pm  

Thank you all.

@Tyler  Didn't even think about case #1.  I'm so focused on staying inside Unify wasn't even thinking about a sampler VST.  Case #3 is a hit!  This was exactly what I needed.  At least for the Korg "Soft Pad" sound.  It worked fantastic!  Thanks.  Won't be able to do that for sounds with special attacks, but I will continue using this flow where I can.  This was a great learning experience for me.

Next I started looking at the JV-1080.

Regarding Ableton Live's Sampler, I found the zero crossing only considers the left channel (maybe this is how Audacity works as well).  In addition, it was a bit frustrating because you can't export any edits to a new WAV file.  I wanted to resave (or export) with some cross-fading, but you can't without recording what you've done to create a new WAV.  It seemed more of a hassle.  I'm going back to using Audacity which took me like maybe a minute or two.

Ableton Live 10, Omnisphere, Native Instruments, Diva, SynthMaster, Alchemy 1.55, Addictive Keys, Unify


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