unify 1.10 new plugin select window does not work in hidpi in correct size

@user476565

Thank you for the report. There have been other issues with Unify 1.10.0, so I will be issuing further updates. I will look into this issue.

It's enough that you simply report these issues to me. I'm quite capable of using forums and other resources on my own.

ok, if you have alone time to solve it. keep in mind if a project get larger and larger the Apple incompatible mac OS development cost more and more time to get the programs work in newest mac os i guess. in april is a new mac os release. or have unify luck and need no changes for the newest mac os ? . there is tell that apple pay developers to support their platforms and this money come from users that pay a much higher price for the hardware.   Maybe for unify can hire somebody that change your code to work in newest mac os and you have more time to do other things.

I do the screenshot scale down to 1920x1080 so you can see on a full hd display how small it is and can very bad read. I want safe my eyes and use unify only rarel. edit the forum scale it up so it look larger

Posted by: @user476565

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keep in mind if a project get larger and larger the Apple incompatible mac OS development cost more and more...

It might come as a surprise to you, but having been a professional developer for more than 40 years, I do know such things.

there is tell that apple pay developers to support their platforms...

HAHAHAHAHAHA tell me another one!

Maybe for unify can hire somebody that change your code to work in newest mac os and you have more time to do other things.

If I could afford to hire help I would have done so long ago. This is not a lucrative business.

Thank you for the screenshot. I have a 4K display and I'm unable to reproduce this either on my Windows 11 PC or my M1 Mac. Please explain your setup in detail.

I have also a cubase 11 LE. this have same problem. you can right click to pop up unify plugin requester and then choose in cubase edit preferences menu.does it really work on your system when you have hidpi support in cubase enable as see in this screenshot and in windows preferences a scaling factor set ?. 

Edit: which windows you have ?. in windows 11 for 4k display is recoommend 150% scale . I use 175%. here is a video that show how he set the scale . he have a full hd display because it set to 100% https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OL3z_myklk

@user476565

Thanks for the additional details. What happens if you switch off that "Enable HiDPI" checkbox in Cubase?

@getdunne 

then all the cubase and plugins is blur, because it renders all from cubase  in a temporary buffer and scale it to 150 or in my case to 175% and blit it into the 4k destination screen. or to simulate it easy switch mac or windows to 1920x1080 and display on a 4k screen. it look very blur on the 4k monitor in compare to a 1920x1080 monitor. 

here it is explain and there are comparision images. https://blog.presonus.com/2015/05/28/developing-studio-one-part-1-high-dpi-graphics-engine/

that it is on a mac ok but in windows not. that it is ok on mac but not on windows again strongly indicates a juce error . because mac have as can read in this link no feature to disable hidpi mode

  On OS X, a similar mode is always enabled to support devices like Retina MacBooks and the 5K Retina iMac. Why did we make it optional on Windows? Because as soon as an application declares itself “DPI-aware” to the system, the automatic scaling provided by the DWM (Desktop Window Manager) is turned off and this affects third party plug-ins in a way that they appear smaller on screen than the Studio One stock plug-ins. 

@getdunne 

can you now reproduce the Problem ?. if so you can start unify standalone and all unify child windows and popup windows are scaled correct. so it should be sure it is a juce Problem. Wy you do not add to the plugin examples (newest juce lib and code you can install on other folder)  few lines of code that open child window as unify do and post this in juce forum so they can either fix it or tell a easy fix for the problem. maybe a constructor for juce windows class can set the font and work for all child windows ? . this problems with the windows have more programmers that use juce. so best is when it is fix.

Posted by: @user476565

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Wy you do not add to the plugin examples (newest juce lib and code you can install on other folder)  few lines of code that open child window as unify do and post this in juce forum...

Because I'm working frantically to solve a far more serious problem--a crash bug that affects EVERY Unify user. You are literally the only person complaining about this. With respect, if your vision is so poor that you set your 4K monitor to 175%, why not just use a standard HD monitor?

...so they can either fix it or tell a easy fix for the problem...

You overestimate the JUCE team. They are also overwhelmed with other issues, and I would not expect any response from them. I have posted to their forum about this already, and one of the JUCE guys said he was going to look into it, then never posted anything more.

Posted by: @getdunne

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You are literally the only person complaining about this. With respect, if your vision is so poor that you set your 4K monitor to 175%, why not just use a standard HD monitor?

which 4 k monitor size you have ?.

I see nobody suggest a 32 inch 4k monitor use with 100% scale. https://www.reddit.com/r/Monitors/comments/smjfhf/is_100_scaling_usable_on_32_4k_monitor/ 125% - 150% they mostly used. I have 31  inch and i have my keyboard before the monitor so it is more away and should be a little behind speakers on desktop. 175% give 14% more content(200 % is full HD) simuar as when use a 31 inch monitor instead of 27 inch.

because 4k monitor look better in general i have buy years ago a 4k monitor instead of a old age full hd . 2021 sept and before you also write about time problems

Posted by: @getdunne

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Because I'm working frantically to solve a far more serious problem--a crash bug that affects EVERY Unify user.

how can i reproduce this bug ?. does it happen on windows too ?

Posted by: @getdunne

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I have posted to their forum about this already, and one of the JUCE guys said he was going to look into it, then never posted anything more.

that is because you give them a excuse to do nothing with the text you write on sept 2021 later. https://forum.juce.com/t/use-font-and-size-from-daw-in-juce-popup-menus/46303/23?u=calvin

I’m well aware that plug-ins are not supposed to create extra windows at all, so I don’t really expect JUCE to support it. Any advice would be welcome nonetheless.

In fact DLL or plugins should also can create child windows. on which juce unify 1.1.0 is now compile ?

@getdunne 

and also here i have find a post on juce how to report a bug. you see you do not the right way.  i dont think it cost you more than 10 minutes of time use the plugin example of latest juce and add the code you to open a child window with juce. and if this fail in a plugin but work standalone it is clearly a bug that should fix

https://forum.juce.com/t/reporting-bugs-please-read-this-before-doing-so/14279

So the golden rule of reporting a JUCE bug is to first try the latest code from GitHub/SourceForge, to see whether it’s still relevant. Using the last “officially” released version is not good enough! You need to actually use GIT to get the bleeding-edge build.

at end he write

I’m delighted to help out with problems, and bug reports are invaluable to help maintain JUCE’s quality. But chasing non-existent or no-longer-existent bugs is a terrible time-waster, and I think everyone would prefer me to be spending my time writing new classes instead!

Posted by: @user476565

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and also here i have find a post on juce how to report a bug. you see you do not the right way.  i dont think it cost you more than 10 minutes of time use the plugin example of latest juce and add the code you to open a child window with juce.

Could you possibly look into this, and share your solution? It would be very helpful.

@getdunne 

because i have never use juce i need some hours to learn about it and i did not know how you open the window.

maybe you post the code snippet you use to open a window and output some text on it. I then merge it in the current develop branch in the vst plugin example of juce and compile. and if it not work as plugin i report this in juce forum

@getdunne 

I look more into it and find the reason wy Mac need no Hidpi stuff as windows. it is because on mac there are only display sizes with a resolution that give over 200 PPI (pixels per inch). it is of course more expensive but with this high resolution it look not blur when do upscaling as happen when in DAW no hidpi mode is enable

here can read how the display sizes and resolutions on available mac systems are https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retina-Display

which retina mac display you have ?

I have a 32 inch 4k display which result in only 138 PPI. you see on mac 4k is use for a 21.5 inch display and 6k is used for 32 inch which result in 218 PPI so to avoid hidpi problems need buy a 6k or 8 k monitor or the cheapest solution is to put the monitor more far away so all is smaller and eyes can not see the blur. maybe i should buy the final monitor i ever need for my eyes. a 32 inch 8k oled.

On my 32 inch 4 k monitor PPI is only 138 dpi and so i see all blur when DAW is not in hidpi mode. only windows is able with the hidpi mode and plugins that support it to use display sizes of 32 inch and 4k and have sharp image.

When I am using the Unify v1.10.1   Unify does not allow itself to come on top of other windows when plugin GUI is open. I am using Windows 10 Pro 22H2  OS build 19045.2965

@getdunne here is the juce code for scaling. in juce_audio_plugin_client_vst3.cpp . you see on a Mac it do always "return kResultFalse;" see my above post wy. because unify is not highdpi correct a better solution seem simple. let the function in windows unify return false and the DAW notice this as a non scalable plugin and you can enable scale for this plugin in the DAW. of course it look then on my monitor blur but this is better as now and the whole DAW is not blur only unify.

tresult PLUGIN_API setContentScaleFactor ([[maybe_unused]] const Steinberg::IPlugViewContentScaleSupport::ScaleFactor factor) override
{
#if ! JUCE_MAC
const auto scaleToApply = [&]
{
#if JUCE_WINDOWS && JUCE_WIN_PER_MONITOR_DPI_AWARE
// Cubase 10 only sends integer scale factors, so correct this for fractional scales
if (detail::PluginUtilities::getHostType().type != PluginHostType::SteinbergCubase10)
return factor;

const auto hostWindowScale = (Steinberg::IPlugViewContentScaleSupport::ScaleFactor) getScaleFactorForWindow (static_cast<HWND> (systemWindow));

if (hostWindowScale <= 0.0 || approximatelyEqual (factor, hostWindowScale))
return factor;

return hostWindowScale;
#else
return factor;
#endif
}();

applyScaleFactor (scaleFactor.withHost (scaleToApply));

return kResultTrue;
#else
return kResultFalse;
#endif
}

Posted by: @camanostudios

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When I am using the Unify v1.10.1   Unify does not allow itself to come on top of other windows when plugin GUI is open. I am using Windows 10 Pro 22H2  OS build 19045.2965

In future, please start a new topic instead of just tacking onto an unrelated one.

Are you using Unify stand-alone or in a DAW? This should not happen in stand-alone. In a DAW, go to Settings and uncheck the box "Plugin Windows always on top (in DAW only)". You may need to delete all instances of Unify and open a fresh one for this to take effect.

@user476565

I used to have a retina-display Mac (2018 MacBook Pro), but I don't have it anymore. I use an M1 Mac Mini with a Samsung 32" 4K display.

As you can see, scaling (especially on Windows) is a very complex issue, and the JUCE framework is shot through with little code hacks to try to make it work. Aspects of the problem include:

• Plug-in "standards" were developed before this was an issue, and weren't designed for it.
• Various plug-in formats (VST, VST3, AU) each address this in a different way (or sometimes not at all).
• The plug-in developer does not control everything; different DAWs do things differently (see code comment about Cubase, for example)
• Many plug-ins have no code (or inadequate code) to handle scaling. Hosts (including Unify) can't magically fix this.

I rely on the JUCE framework to address issues like this, and I don't have the time, nor the resources, nor the inclination to analyze and fix their code. As far as I know, the JUCE team is actively working on such things, and eventually they will provide a version of the framework which fixes all the issues. All I can practically do is wait until this is available.

@getdunne

Posted by: @getdunne

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I used to have a retina-display Mac (2018 MacBook Pro), but I don't have it anymore. I use an M1 Mac Mini with a Samsung 32" 4K display.

In a 32 inch 4k display you should also see blur because mac have no hidpi mode. but because maybe all look blur did not notice it or you sit more far away. ? . how far away you sit from monitor ?. I sit 74 cm away from my monitor and notice this blur alot. i have a bug in juce find i think. with this define see screenshot it should switch off hidpi for this plugin only. and the DAW can do bitmap scale of this plugin so it look as no hidpi mode blur. but it is much better than now if they can fix that juce can work without scaling when disable that . I use the free visual c 2022. it show after compile which block in #ifdef is used and which not

I have report this here https://forum.juce.com/t/bug-juce-audio-plugin-client-vst3-cpp-setcontentscalefactor-not-work-correct/56396

@getdunne with this define set to 0 it do not scale the font and i think all other but the windows dimensions are still scale, so this define work only partly. hope on forum is somebody who know other places where plugin report the windows dimensions

Posted by: @getdunne

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I use an M1 Mac Mini with a Samsung 32" 4K display.

intresting. can you please post a screenshot how your DAW and unify look in 4k resolution on your mac ? you need a 3.rd party software to get this monitor working on mac, because it is forbidden on mac os to use other monitors ?

on this page is what happen with mac display on 163 PPI (32 inch 4k monitor 136 PPI) and 218PPI compare. it look very worse in 163 PPI too. https://bjango.com/articles/macexternaldisplays2/

Pixel density #

macOS has been designed to be legible and usable with a pixel density of about 218PPI (pixels per inch) for “Retina” class desktop displays. If a display’s PPI is higher, text and the macOS user interface will be smaller. If a display’s PPI is lower, text and the macOS user interface will be larger. Stray too far from 218PPI and macOS becomes unusable.

I try to compile your example on juce 6.0.7 but it still give same compiler errors as i post in juce forum. this code i use from you https://github.com/getdunne/juce-plugin-wrapper

Posted by: @getdunne

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As far as I know, the JUCE team is actively working on such things, and eventually they will provide a version of the framework which fixes all the issues. All I can practically do is wait until this is available

I dont know what happen with juce. it is buy from ilok . maybe apple pay that avoid as possible to  enhance hidpi code because it should not better for windows as for mac and Mac users should buy overpriced mac monitors  🙂  . it can help when more developers tell them to enhance juce because they can not say. "we get money to avoid to enhance it". and juce get better hidpi support sooner 🙂

I look at your klangfalter source, the folder of UI is empty seem user interface code is miss. what files i need more to compile klangfalter ?

because klangfalter gui work good in hidpi i can not understand wy you not do new code(as the plugin search window) add that work in hidpi good. you can see in klangfalter how it need do. Sure it cost few hours to learn. but when unify grow and you need later change more code this cost even more time. it is also possible that on mac os lat

I hope it is not because unify should not work better on windows as on mac because you or maybe John ? love the mac so much 🙂

Posted by: @user476565

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can you please post a screenshot how your DAW and unify look in 4k resolution on your mac ?

I'm attaching a zip archive with Unify 1.10.1 in Logic Pro on Mac at 150% and 255%, and in Ableton Live on Windows 11 at 150% and 175%. The plug-in selection window text appears clear and scaled in all cases, but there are MANY other cases (Mac/Windows, every kind of DAW, VST vs VST3, etc.). I can't test everything. If you have specific problems, I advise you to canvas the other Unify users to see if anyone else is having the same problem.

you need a 3.rd party software to get this monitor working on mac, because it is forbidden on mac os to use other monitors ?

WHAT? Of course it's not "forbidden". No third-party software is needed; just plug the monitor in.

I try to compile your example on juce 6.0.7...

Unify is built on JUCE 6.1.6. I updated the Klangfalter code for JUCE 6.1.6 some time ago.

I dont know what happen with juce. it is buy from ilok . maybe apple pay that avoid as possible to  enhance hidpi code because it should not better for windows as for mac and Mac users should buy overpriced mac monitors  🙂  . it can help when more developers tell them to enhance juce...

WHAT? I'm sure Apple have bigger concerns.

I look at your klangfalter source, the folder of UI is empty seem user interface code is miss. what files i need more to compile klangfalter ?

Did you use the source from https://github.com/pluginguru/KlangFalter? Everything should be there?

because klangfalter gui work good in hidpi i can not understand wy you not do new code(as the plugin search window) add that work in hidpi good. you can see in klangfalter how it need do. Sure it cost few hours to learn. but when unify grow and you need later change more code this cost even more time. it is also possible that on mac os lat

You seem to think this is trivial, or perhaps you think I'm an idiot. If it were trivial, I would have solved it a long time ago.

The pop-up plug-in search window in Unify is a separate window, created using the juce::CallOutBox class. Klangfalter does not create any such pop-up windows, so this is an apples-to-oranges comparison.

I hope it is not because unify should not work better on windows as on mac because you or maybe John ? love the mac so much 🙂

WHAT? 90% of our customers use Windows. Please do not clutter our discussion with such rubbish.

At this point, I don't even know what your concern is. You created a post about the new pop-up plug-in search windows in Unify, but now you're talking about Klangfalter. Please keep your posts specific.

As you can see from the attached screenshots, the plug-in search window in Unify 1.10.1 works correctly in at least some DAWs on both Mac and Windows. Please specify your EXACT configuration:

• Windows version number
• Monitor make/model and selected resolution/magnification
• Graphics card type
• Single- or multi-monitor system?
• DAW type, and version number
• Unify format used (VST, VST3, etc.)

Also, please supply at least one screenshot illustrating the problem. I know, you have posted screenshots before, but you have posted so much by now, that I prefer to start again from the beginning.

@user476565

Can the Monitor itself be set to HD resolution and report that resolution to the operating system?

Posted by: @robert-p

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Can the Monitor itself be set to HD resolution and report that resolution to the operating system?

Are you asking me, or the original poster? I have no idea what that even means.

Posted by: @getdunne

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Are you asking me, or the original poster? I have no idea what that even means.

Sorry, I'm asking the original poster about upscaling/downscaling - is this function available on his 4K Monitor?

@robert-p

I edited your comment to add a tag for @user476565

Posted by: @getdunne

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@robert-p

I edited your comment to add a tag for @user476565

Thank you!

@getdunne your screenshots look all blur. which computer you use as main computer to view images or so ?. the mac ? . you have written windows live . do you mean your main daw when you use windows is ableton live ?. please enable in ableton live https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209775985-High-DPI-monitor-support    hidpi support. the display on 4k monitor on windows get much sharper then. if your main computer is the mac you maybe notice not that all look in hidpi mode much sharper

I have attach a screenshot of unify. the main window use hidpi and is sharper also in jpg format. to see the screenshot in correct quality you need use windows image viewer and compare your image and my image. because mac maybe scale the screenshot and let it look blur too. did you not see diffrence that my unify screenshot look much sharper ? . I have btw a color calibrate display and normal eye friendly nit is around 120. this is brightness setting in monitormenu around 15. if you not see that my screenshot is much sharper try reduce brightness or contrast to 15 of your monitor

to your other questions i answer later

@getdunne It is doing it in stand alone. Not sure how to start a new topic.

@ksjong

Ah yes, unfortunately this forum software does not make clear how to create a new topic. You first need to select the appropriate forum section. On a page like this, you can do this by scrolling all the way to the top and click on the word "Forums" in green. Then click on the name of the forum you want, in this case "Questions about Unify". Then you'll see a blue "Add Topic" button; click that.

I have taken the liberty of creating a new topic for you here.

@getdunne what not clear for me you do a mac screenshot with name 2560x1440 150%. this look much larger of button sizes and text as the winscreenshots. (my picture viewer do not scale i am sure). what happen when on scale you set 100% and use 3840x2160 on mac ? thats the 4k resolution 4k monitor have

@getdunne please answer to my questions in 2 above posts.

On your answer 2020 to other user https://forums.pluginguru.com/questions-about-unify-v1-0/a-few-general-issues-that-may-already-be-solved/#post-2412

Window-handling code is inherited from the JUCE framework. I will look to see if there's something I'm missing to handle magnification on Windows. (Retina displays already seem to work fine on Mac.)

Posted by: @getdunne

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You seem to think this is trivial, or perhaps you think I'm an idiot.

I think not you are an Idiot. You are excellent programmer. I have written it before .seem you want that people buy a MAC and seem you want not that unify on windows work better as on Mac. your words

(Retina displays already seem to work fine on Mac.)

I hope you did not think i am Idiot. I btw program years ago for amiga computer. even with this it was possible to write such compileable example code for bugfix in 20-30 minutes . (Amiga have btw since 1990 scaleble hidpi gui) . I developed on GUI(which support scale and any DPI as target for text and vector elements) and i am 99.9% sure in the juce code there is something miss(or nobody want add it becsause then windows is much better as Mac) that get windows scale factor in the DLL. and this can fix because it is a clear gui library bug if it work in standalone in hidpi and not as dll plugin.

In detail it is not unify it is juce because unify work standalone perfect in hidpi. main problem is you do no compileable example of code how you open the window and report not the bug to juce. this is standard behaviour in develpment to report bugs that a developer notice also in they 1990. You ask me about my system . but please switch on in your windows DAW hidpi mode that is available since many years in every DAW . did you not see yourself what the problem is ?. if it really work on your computer with hidpi on please do a screenshot and your hidpi settings and DAW you have that it work in HIDPI. most plugins that are currently in development work ok.

on mac it is worse there are the problems always in because they have no hidpi scalable GUI. this upscaling never can have the quality of hidpi but it get at least sharper on a 6k 32 inch retina mac display. In Fact seem mac render GUI at full HD (96 PPI) and scale it to destination resolution. here somebody write

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/252565647

if you want larger type and icons, you need to operate at a lower resolution

and it is scaled accordingly for the 4K display. Some displays can also have

built in upscaling.

If you insist on having the full 4K, then things are going

to be small, unless you get a physically larger screen (some one

here said they connected their M1 MacMini to a 75" 4K TV and

folders are nearly the size of real folders).

Actually, if you have a Retina MacBook Air, its "display" is already

scaled to the native display resolution. If you could set it to match

its native resolution, text would be microscopic.

most of the questions and screenshot picture how unify look in hidpi in DAW i have answer in this post. https://forums.pluginguru.com/questions-about-unify-v1-0/unify-1-10-new-plugin-select-window-does-not-work-in-hidpi-in-correct-size/#post-17823

same if use a AMD or nvidia gfx card. I have single monitor system

Posted by: @getdunne

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The pop-up plug-in search window in Unify is a separate window, created using the juce::CallOutBox class. Klangfalter does not create any such pop-up windows, so this is an apples-to-oranges comparison.

I ask you how you open the window before. You not answer . So i assume you can use the klangfalter as a example how to write good hidpi code for child windows.

I have report some scale problems on falcon years ago and they fix it in next update that come few weeks later. so please answer my questions

@user476565

I don't have time for this. My main concern is that Unify is usable and does not crash. If the graphics imperfect, I don't care, as long as it's legible.

I will not answer any further.

Posted by: @getdunne

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@user476565

I don't have time for this. My main concern is that Unify is usable and does not crash. If the graphics imperfect, I don't care, as long as it's legible.

I will not answer any further.

ok, no problem you are the developer.

if you say this earlier , then you and i can save many write and i test time. but please can you then in that case give me the money i pay for unify back ? . mulab/mux plugin work in hidpi good and i can that buy from the money. I dont want have blur image forever. on kvraudio

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=597559  

i have some days ago create a thread in the instrument tree because here look more people.  no answer, also at second post. so seem nobody in the forum active use unify

if there is too few time, maybe John make unify opensource because he get the most money from his sound libraries he can maybe get more money then. So other can enhance unify and you are the project leader and add suggestions for money and can try to get hidpi work or add new features to unify or port to Linux. John can then use more features for his sounds maybe.

@user476565

Please email John at UnifySupport@PlugInGuru.com to request a refund.

Posted by: @user476565

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(...) please can you then in that case give me the money i pay for unify back ? . mulab/mux plugin work in hidpi good and i can that buy from the money. (...)

MuLab/Mux plugin doesn't support multithreading - I own it and I often use it with Unify to overcome that limitation. If you could spend less time on writing your posts and do some work instead, you might be able to afford both apps.

Hi

Does unify 2.0 work in hidpi and hopefully juce is fixed to make hidpi support more easy ?. I see in video unify 2 is done by other developer that maybe use himself windows on a 4k display ? .  maybe chances are good it can work in hidpi. John was so kind that he give me my money back 2023. but if unify 2 can work good in hidpi i pay the complete price of it.